Complaints about the Democratic party

[Winslow]

Killing Osama may have gone to his head. I'm still behind most of his policies, but this just reeks of a testosterone overdose.

To use nerd speak: "Boromir-syndrome"

"I ask only for the strength to defend my people!"

[Wjowski]

Never forget how Republicans and Democrats can always somehow find the wherewithal to work together when it comes to the important issues.

Like the Patriot Act.

[heretic]

In a leaked white paper from the Obama administration justifies the assassination of American citizens without due process.

Yes, you read that right.

I think the terrorists won.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/se...hite_Paper.pdf

Really, really disappointing.

So sending in SOCOM is preferable if the citizens have taken up arms against the US (government and citizenry alike) and (here is the kicker) remain beyond the reach of any state authority?

[Pól Rua]

Nothing to see here. move along.

[Spike-X]

I tend to agree with you but I can understand how some people want a FISA style court rather than a single individual making that decision.

Although I'm unsure how much extra protection a secret court meeting in camera actually provides.

'zat u, Ian?

[Pól Rua]

'zat u, Ian?

How could you tell?

The lack of references to poop?

[Spike-X]

How could you tell?

The lack of references to poop?

That had a lot to do with it. I just about got whiplash watching "Pol" go from talking about Tiki-themed supervillains to...whatever it is you're talking about here.

[mikekerrIII]

curious as to who made that because it's the democratic party not the democrat party

Who made has no bearing on it's accuracy

But the "Democrat Party" line means it is probably a tea-bagger

[Winslow]

So sending in SOCOM is preferable if the citizens have taken up arms against the US (government and citizenry alike) and (here is the kicker) remain beyond the reach of any state authority?

I have no idea how you read that into my post. I have no problem with the use of drones to takeout terrorists or traitors in nations that lack the will or competence to bring them to justice.

I have a HUGE problem with a legal white paper stating the executive branch is justified in being "judge, jury, and executioner" of American citizens without some sort of due process that is granted by the constitution and is our right. Due process can simply be the requirement for the executive branch to prove to a third party that the American is a traitor and is planning to harm other Americans (a proof of intent to harm). To seize that kind of power and authority in a liberal free democracy is disgusting. I wouldn't have voted for the asshole if I knew he was going to do that.

[Iangould]

I entirely understand your position winslow but 7th angel raises another valid point.

Drones are a relatively new technology: some people are acting as though the technology is the issue not the underlying legal issues.

That's leading them to overlook that you can do the exact same thing with Tomahaak missiles or plain old bombs.

It's also leading to a series of state laws in the US with blanket bans on ALL uses of drones, including stuff like search and rescue and forest fire observation where they'd be extremely valuable.

[mikekerrIII]

I entirely understand your position winslow but 7th angel raises another valid point.

Drones are a relatively new technology: some people are acting as though the technology is the issue not the underlying legal issues.

That's leading them to overlook that you can do the exact same thing with Tomahaak missiles or plain old bombs.

It's also leading to a series of state laws in the US with blanket bans on ALL uses of drones, including stuff like search and rescue and forest fire observation where they'd be extremely valuable.

People seem to ignore that Drones are used becasue they cause far less collateral damage than the alternatives

[finfangfool]

I'm all for using robots, both on a geek level and because once perfected (and even in many situations today) they'll lead to far fewer casualties than conventional methods. I agree there's a big distinction between the use of drones and the use of lethal force on American citizens. As Penn Jillette said on his podcast (yes I know he's hardly an expert, but he's funny and he made a good point), "You shouldn't be worried about this President, and maybe not the next two, but somewhere down the line there's going to be someone worse than Bush and he's going to have this power. That's what you need to be worried about." (Not an exact quote, but the general idea). Once given, it's hard prying these powers back from the people we've granted them to (though in this case they were self-granted, which is even more troubling).

[Shellhead]

I'm all for using robots, both on a geek level and because once perfected (and even in many situations today) they'll lead to far fewer casualties than conventional methods. I agree there's a big distinction between the use of drones and the use of lethal force on American citizens. As Penn Jillette said on his podcast (yes I know he's hardly an expert, but he's funny and he made a good point), "You shouldn't be worried about this President, and maybe not the next two, but somewhere down the line there's going to be someone worse than Bush and he's going to have this power. That's what you need to be worried about." (Not an exact quote, but the general idea). Once given, it's hard prying these powers back from the people we've granted them to (though in this case they were self-granted, which is even more troubling).

When it comes to drone usage, Obama is worse than Bush. Four times as many drone strikes during the Obama Administration. Also, Gitmo hasn't been shut down yet, and the Patriot Act got renewed. All in all, the neocons couldn't have hoped for more from a Democrat in the White House.

[Paradox]

You can't lay Gitmo in Obama's lap. He tried. No one would take the prisoners.

[7thangel]

You can't lay Gitmo in Obama's lap. He tried. No one would take the prisoners.

congress was united in stopping the closing of gitmo with legislation attached to bills. from defunding to blocking transfers to the mainland and then to other countries