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  1. #1486
    Elder Member Winslow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
    Killing Osama may have gone to his head. I'm still behind most of his policies, but this just reeks of a testosterone overdose.
    To use nerd speak: "Boromir-syndrome"

    "I ask only for the strength to defend my people!"

  2. #1487
    Elder Member Wjowski's Avatar
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    Never forget how Republicans and Democrats can always somehow find the wherewithal to work together when it comes to the important issues.

    Like the Patriot Act.

  3. #1488
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winslow View Post
    In a leaked white paper from the Obama administration justifies the assassination of American citizens without due process.

    Yes, you read that right.

    I think the terrorists won.

    http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/se...hite_Paper.pdf

    Really, really disappointing.
    So sending in SOCOM is preferable if the citizens have taken up arms against the US (government and citizenry alike) and (here is the kicker) remain beyond the reach of any state authority?

  4. #1489
    The Central Sca-rutinizer Pól Rua's Avatar
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    Nothing to see here. move along.
    Last edited by Pól Rua; 02-09-2013 at 06:34 PM.
    "Loudly proclaiming that you are above childish things isn't a sign of maturity - it's proof of adolescence." - Schnitzy Pretzelpants

    Co-host of The 'Mike & Pól Save The Universe' Comics podcast - check it out on www.mikeandpol.com

  5. #1490
    Be Right Back... Spike-X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pól Rua View Post
    I tend to agree with you but I can understand how some people want a FISA style court rather than a single individual making that decision.

    Although I'm unsure how much extra protection a secret court meeting in camera actually provides.
    'zat u, Ian?
    Christ, do I have to do all the thinking for the entire fucking Internet? - Michael P

  6. #1491
    The Central Sca-rutinizer Pól Rua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike-X View Post
    'zat u, Ian?
    How could you tell?

    The lack of references to poop?
    "Loudly proclaiming that you are above childish things isn't a sign of maturity - it's proof of adolescence." - Schnitzy Pretzelpants

    Co-host of The 'Mike & Pól Save The Universe' Comics podcast - check it out on www.mikeandpol.com

  7. #1492
    Be Right Back... Spike-X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pól Rua View Post
    How could you tell?

    The lack of references to poop?
    That had a lot to do with it. I just about got whiplash watching "Pol" go from talking about Tiki-themed supervillains to...whatever it is you're talking about here.
    Christ, do I have to do all the thinking for the entire fucking Internet? - Michael P

  8. #1493
    Elder Member mikekerrIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7thangel View Post
    curious as to who made that because it's the democratic party not the democrat party
    Who made has no bearing on it's accuracy

    But the "Democrat Party" line means it is probably a tea-bagger
    Pain shared is divided, joy shared is multiplied

  9. #1494
    Elder Member Winslow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heretic View Post
    So sending in SOCOM is preferable if the citizens have taken up arms against the US (government and citizenry alike) and (here is the kicker) remain beyond the reach of any state authority?
    I have no idea how you read that into my post. I have no problem with the use of drones to takeout terrorists or traitors in nations that lack the will or competence to bring them to justice.

    I have a HUGE problem with a legal white paper stating the executive branch is justified in being "judge, jury, and executioner" of American citizens without some sort of due process that is granted by the constitution and is our right. Due process can simply be the requirement for the executive branch to prove to a third party that the American is a traitor and is planning to harm other Americans (a proof of intent to harm). To seize that kind of power and authority in a liberal free democracy is disgusting. I wouldn't have voted for the asshole if I knew he was going to do that.

  10. #1495

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    I entirely understand your position winslow but 7th angel raises another valid point.

    Drones are a relatively new technology: some people are acting as though the technology is the issue not the underlying legal issues.

    That's leading them to overlook that you can do the exact same thing with Tomahaak missiles or plain old bombs.

    It's also leading to a series of state laws in the US with blanket bans on ALL uses of drones, including stuff like search and rescue and forest fire observation where they'd be extremely valuable.
    Last edited by Iangould; 02-12-2013 at 03:16 PM.
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  11. #1496
    Elder Member mikekerrIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iangould View Post
    I entirely understand your position winslow but 7th angel raises another valid point.

    Drones are a relatively new technology: some people are acting as though the technology is the issue not the underlying legal issues.

    That's leading them to overlook that you can do the exact same thing with Tomahaak missiles or plain old bombs.

    It's also leading to a series of state laws in the US with blanket bans on ALL uses of drones, including stuff like search and rescue and forest fire observation where they'd be extremely valuable.
    People seem to ignore that Drones are used becasue they cause far less collateral damage than the alternatives
    Pain shared is divided, joy shared is multiplied

  12. #1497
    Senior Member finfangfool's Avatar
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    I'm all for using robots, both on a geek level and because once perfected (and even in many situations today) they'll lead to far fewer casualties than conventional methods. I agree there's a big distinction between the use of drones and the use of lethal force on American citizens. As Penn Jillette said on his podcast (yes I know he's hardly an expert, but he's funny and he made a good point), "You shouldn't be worried about this President, and maybe not the next two, but somewhere down the line there's going to be someone worse than Bush and he's going to have this power. That's what you need to be worried about." (Not an exact quote, but the general idea). Once given, it's hard prying these powers back from the people we've granted them to (though in this case they were self-granted, which is even more troubling).
    A Fool for the Foom

  13. #1498
    Elder Member Shellhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by finfangfool View Post
    I'm all for using robots, both on a geek level and because once perfected (and even in many situations today) they'll lead to far fewer casualties than conventional methods. I agree there's a big distinction between the use of drones and the use of lethal force on American citizens. As Penn Jillette said on his podcast (yes I know he's hardly an expert, but he's funny and he made a good point), "You shouldn't be worried about this President, and maybe not the next two, but somewhere down the line there's going to be someone worse than Bush and he's going to have this power. That's what you need to be worried about." (Not an exact quote, but the general idea). Once given, it's hard prying these powers back from the people we've granted them to (though in this case they were self-granted, which is even more troubling).
    When it comes to drone usage, Obama is worse than Bush. Four times as many drone strikes during the Obama Administration. Also, Gitmo hasn't been shut down yet, and the Patriot Act got renewed. All in all, the neocons couldn't have hoped for more from a Democrat in the White House.
    "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
    Martin Luther King Jr., Letter from Birmingham Jail, April 16, 1963

  14. #1499
    Nyah! Paradox's Avatar
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    You can't lay Gitmo in Obama's lap. He tried. No one would take the prisoners.
    'Dox out.

    "But I think the difference is, when Democrats go crazy, they get shown the door. When Republicans go crazy they get appointed to the Science committee. " - Shawn Hopkins

    "Can it, you nit!" - Violet Beauregard

    "And Paradox is never correct. About anything."- Kid Omega


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  15. #1500
    for the lulz 7thangel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
    You can't lay Gitmo in Obama's lap. He tried. No one would take the prisoners.
    congress was united in stopping the closing of gitmo with legislation attached to bills. from defunding to blocking transfers to the mainland and then to other countries

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