Fantastic Four #582 *Spoilers*

**randomengine** · 08-25-2010, 10:32 AM

spoilers:

The two Nathaniels and Reed, Doom, and Ben fight
The evil "Beast" version of Nathaniel summons the Anarchronauts to fight for him
The Beast injures Ben
Reed blows the Beast's left hand off with a raygun
The Beast plays to Reed's heartstrings and compassion and turns on him, then goes to kill good Nathaniel
Doom attacks the Beast from behind and kills him because good Nathaniel doesn't have what it takes to murder
Doom wants Reed to know that without him all would be lost
Future Val tells her mother that her and Franklin (future versions) will be sacrificing themselves to change things. It's kind of complicated.
Nathaniel goes back to his future grandson in the pocket dimension and Franklin turns off his grandfathers powers and kicks him into a timehole
Franklin says that Nathaniel has made every Reed that ever was an orphan and he wants to change that.
Nathaniel says he would be lost in time, Franklin says he doesnt want him to die, maybe it's possible he can't, but doesnt want to take that chance. He assured Nathaniel that he will find a way out.
Future Val and Franklin apparantly die (yeah right) attempting to reach the "new future" before the univese collapses on them.

end of spoilers

Story - B+
Art - A-
Cover - D (I hate Ben's double chin or is that a rock beard?)

**Expletive Deleted** · 08-25-2010, 10:40 AM

I'm still working out the time travel mechanics and I'm not 100% behind the characterization of pre-scars Victor, but overall I liked this issue. It lightly wraps up some of the subplots that've been circulating for the last year or so, but does it in a way that leaves the door open for future stories.

**Darkhawk225** · 08-25-2010, 10:44 AM

I'm so confused by this series. That might be why I love it it keeps me guessin. I love the price tag since everything else is 3.99.

**Shallot** · 08-25-2010, 11:50 AM

I didn't really care for the latest issue despite liking last month's story. All it seemed to do was yet again hint at future storylines, something Hickman's been doing for a while now.

**coconutphone** · 08-25-2010, 11:54 AM

I liked it but it's very confusing. LOL I defo need to re-read it.

**Iron Maiden** · 08-25-2010, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by Expletive Deleted

I'm still working out the time travel mechanics and I'm not 100% behind the characterization of pre-scars Victor, but overall I liked this issue.

Are you referring to the inference that Victor likes John Wayne movies?

Doomscribe and I got into this discussion also. We both felt that at this stage in his life, Victor would not identify with the aristocracy as Reed mentions in the lecture scene from last issue. That would come later. I prefer Warren Ellis's version in Doom 2099 where Doom goes back to his roots as an insurgent against the ruling class.

Victor clearly was used because Nathaniel didn't want to dirty his hands but is that really any better than him not doing it himself? There's still a lot of hypocrisy in that course of action. One thing that this story does sort of close the circuit on is the Nathaniel Richards that showed up in DeFalco's run and the original intro to the character in Byrne's run. By showing us all these different versions, maybe Hickman is trying to reconcile why one behaved differently from the other. Maybe one day we will see an explanation as to what happened to the step brother of Reed's, the son of Nathaniel and his second wife Cassandra.

Originally Posted by Expletive Deleted

It lightly wraps up some of the subplots that've been circulating for the last year or so, but does it in a way that leaves the door open for future stories.

Originally Posted by Shallot

I didn't really care for the latest issue despite liking last month's story. All it seemed to do was yet again hint at future storylines, something Hickman's been doing for a while now.

I had a twinge of sadness that it appears that Val (even though her current incarnation annoys me) and Franklin are not destined to live long and prosper but I could be premature about that. Marvel has many different timelines and this could just be one alternate, just the like timeline that leads into Old Man Logan or the events leading to the 2099 series.

I am still a bit befuddled by what exactly the kids and Nathaniel were trying to correct and maybe I need to go back and read this again too!

**Expletive Deleted** · 08-25-2010, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by Iron Maiden

Doomscribe and I got into this discussion also. We both felt that at this stage in his life, Victor would not identify with the aristocracy as Reed mentions in the lecture scene from last issue.

I'd agree with that. I think Hickman wrote him a little too much like Dr. Doom in this storyline, as odd a thing as that is to say.

**Iron Maiden** · 08-25-2010, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by Expletive Deleted

I'd agree with that. I think Hickman wrote him a little too much like Dr. Doom in this storyline, as odd a thing as that is to say.

No, that pretty much says it. I still have to wonder if Hickman is toying around with timelines and if all this is a direct link back to the current continuity or not. It doesn't seem like "today's" Doom has any memory of this event or ya'd think he might mention it once in a while that he saved Reed's daddy's hash.

**Bevbos** · 08-26-2010, 02:12 PM

I got noooooooooooo idea what the heck is going on in FF these days.

But, I'm still weirdly compelled. As with Morrison's Batman, I may be pretty dang confused, but I'm still highly entertained. I'm sure with some re-reading, more of it will make sense. On the other hand, I wouldn't mind if any of you less befuddled folks could clear it up for me. :)

**SomeBodyAtCBR** · 08-26-2010, 04:02 PM

Stupid me, I thought this was the beginning of the arc before Three. Oh well. It was a really cool read and I'm not much of a FF fan (so yeah, names + artist + event are hooking me for next arc) but I liked what I read. I've tried to read FF before cause I like Hickman and read too many superhero books. I like that the FF is more like sci-fi than heroism.

It makes it very unique.

**the new sensation** · 08-26-2010, 04:49 PM

Oh, it was so weird! Couldnt understand it...what were we meant to infer.... Older Franklin has the hots[!] for his uncle Johnny...!?!? Valeria has the same for her grandfather....eeeewwwwww!!!! And Franklin kills Nathaniel....right, er pass me the pills I need to take a sudden overdose [joke, joke]. And all those different versions of Reed and Ben...very confusing. And Val turns up to tell Sue...precisely nothing. Well, that at least puts her on a par with the rest of us. Horrendously complicated. What is happening to our beloved FF?

**Shallot** · 08-26-2010, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by the new sensation

Oh, it was so weird! Couldnt understand it...what were we meant to infer.... Older Franklin has the hots[!] for his uncle Johnny...!?!? Valeria has the same for her grandfather....eeeewwwwww!!!! And Franklin kills Nathaniel....right, er pass me the pills I need to take a sudden overdose [joke, joke]. And all those different versions of Reed and Ben...very confusing. And Val turns up to tell Sue...precisely nothing. Well, that at least puts her on a par with the rest of us. Horrendously complicated. What is happening to our beloved FF?

LOL. I don't think Franklin has the hots for his uncle, he was just saying that the Torch was his favorite hero. This kind of tied into that issue where Johnny and Franklin battled Arcade. Franklin didn't kill Nathaniel, only knocked him loose in the timestream, which, if I remember correctly, ties into his first appearance as the "Warlord" in Byrne's FF.

I do agree that Val goes to great effort to really impart little information. In the previous issue she had discussed with Nathaniel the need to choose her words carefully, like it was scripted. So you have to wonder if she didn't feed her mother a little bit of misinformation.

My reaction to the issue was generally "yawn". Another future timeline story. There seem to be a lot of them lately and it's only good until the next future timeline saga. If one of the Nathaniels killed used the Anachronauts as weapons does that make Kang a Nathaniel? The Nathaniel that survived almost looked like Immortus in appearance and attitude--he was hesitant to kill and let Doom do it for him(and Doom acts almost Kang-like here). It all adds more confusion to the whole Kang/Immortus thing.

Is this early adventure of Reed/Victor/Ben in continuity now, or will they forget the whole thing? It certainly seems like an event they should remember.

It was a tad confusing and ultimately really didn't accomplish much except once again hint at future storylines. Dissapointing to me.

**jackolover** · 08-26-2010, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by Iron Maiden

No, that pretty much says it. I still have to wonder if Hickman is toying around with timelines and if all this is a direct link back to the current continuity or not. It doesn't seem like "today's" Doom has any memory of this event or ya'd think he might mention it once in a while that he saved Reed's daddy's hash.

Reed would also remember it and maybe react to it once Val was born. But then, this story only re-wove history, today, and Reed now, is really somewhere else (maybe in World War Hulks), so really, Nate is just messing with Reed when he was young, the old Reed isn't aware of it.

**Sue Storm lover** · 08-26-2010, 11:11 PM

Well, I am so glad that I am not the only one here who is confused by the current storyline.

**the new sensation** · 08-27-2010, 01:51 PM

Id love to think that one of the Nathaniels was the future Kang or Immortus; that would be so cool...to think, all those years weve been reading of Kang in the Avengers comic hes been Nathan all along! You could read all those old issues in a new light. Has Franklin really knocked back Grandpappy back to the past, into the alternate future where they have cowboys with laser-guns and those TriPod thingys.