CBR: Millar Makes The Avengers Horrific

[CBR News]

"Ultimate Avengers 3" brings the latest twist on the Ultimates this week and Mark Millar told us why Steve Dillon is perfect for superhero vampire action and why the new Ultimate Daredevil rocks yellow. Plus exclusive art!


Full article here.

[W0NK042]

So basically doing what they're also doing in X-Men. Marvel Sat down & thought "What's not been used by everything/one in last year or two & over-saturated the market" and then thought "Oooo Vampires, that's new."

[MarvelMaster616]

"To me, the Ultimate Universe works when you take something back to its past and focus on what worked about it in the first place," he explained of his approach to the character. "If you're doing Marvel or DC characters for four or five decades in Marvel's case and seven in DC's case, you really start to get away from the original concepts. The Ultimate Universe was about taking everything back to that. Daredevil himself, I've always loved the character and was a big fan of his, but even though it wasn't as good as what it became, I always kind of liked that yellow costume. So taking him back to basics, since the Ultimate Daredevil was killed in 'Ultimatum,' I wanted to do a new Daredevil and make him a kid who was the same age Matt Murdock was when he was blinded, but get him in costume at that age. So he was trained up by Stick, but was in costume within months."

This made me roll my eyes at least six times. Miller is talking about losing focus and getting away from the original concepts of the characters, yet for whatever reason it doesn't bother him that killing off all these characters was not remotely part of the game. I honestly don't know what to make of this. I don't want to call Miller a hypocrite because he's right on many levels. Ultimate is about a re-imagining of classic characters and the series has always been distinguished by being closer to the real world than 616. Yet he seems to negate that you can't take something back to it's roots when that something was killed. All you can do is make half-hearted replacements. That's basically what he admits to doing with the new Daredevil. I don't want to go off on another rant about the post-Ultimatum status quo, but it sure is tempting.

[failinginplace]

i was tired of the vampire crap before it even begun. i feel like if they wanted to jump on the vampire bandwagon they should have done so about 18months ago, but this is just late to the party.

also, i completely agree on this new daredevil being a halfhearted replacement. ultimatum was a comic abortion. ok, stopping now.....

[Zombie Uatu]

So basically doing what they're also doing in X-Men. Marvel Sat down & thought "What's not been used by everything/one in last year or two & over-saturated the market" and then thought "Oooo Vampires, that's new."

Millar was planning his vampire arc long before the "Curse of the Mutants" was known about, even within Marvel. There was a somewhat controversial series of tweets about it as I recall.

[Jackraow21]

All you can do is make half-hearted replacements. That's basically what he admits to doing with the new Daredevil. I don't want to go off on another rant about the post-Ultimatum status quo, but it sure is tempting.

Could not agree more. The Black Widow, Wasp, Hulk and Wolverine replacements have all been laughably bad. Why should the Daredevil replacement be any better? They really crapped the bed with regards to the Ultimate line when they let Loeb write Ultimatum.

[JessieMidnight]

Whats Iron Man's original 616 armor doing in that last preview page is what I want to know. From what I remember he didn't have that armor here in the Ultimate universe.

Aside from that it looks fine. Didn't Millar say he's wanted to work with Steve Dillion for awhile?

[RCourtney]

This made me roll my eyes at least six times. Miller is talking about losing focus and getting away from the original concepts of the characters, yet for whatever reason it doesn't bother him that killing off all these characters was not remotely part of the game. I honestly don't know what to make of this. I don't want to call Miller a hypocrite because he's right on many levels. Ultimate is about a re-imagining of classic characters and the series has always been distinguished by being closer to the real world than 616. Yet he seems to negate that you can't take something back to it's roots when that something was killed. All you can do is make half-hearted replacements. That's basically what he admits to doing with the new Daredevil. I don't want to go off on another rant about the post-Ultimatum status quo, but it sure is tempting.

You just can't get past Ultimatum, can you? Why take out your anger for Loeb on Millar (not Miller, btw)? Millar didn't kill Daredevil, but he still wanted to do a Daredevil story. There's nothing half-hearted about the replacement. He turned Daredevil into a legacy character, having stick pass the mantle down from Matt to Ray. It's really not much different from Batman being passed down to Dick Grayson.

And what's more, death has nothing to do with taking something to its roots. Daredevil is not restricted to be Matt Murdock only. Just because Ultimate Matt died in Ultimatum doesn't mean that a true-to-its-roots Daredevil story can't be told with Ray Connor. Get over it.

Could not agree more. The Black Widow, Wasp, Hulk and Wolverine replacements have all been laughably bad. Why should the Daredevil replacement be any better? They really crapped the bed with regards to the Ultimate line when they let Loeb write Ultimatum.

I just love how you all keep talking about Hulk replacements. Hulk isn't dead, and he hasn't been replaced.

[Madmike]

I'm trying to figure out just how many truckloads of shit this is. If somebody out there with a calculator could help me out?

[MarvelMaster616]

And what's more, death has nothing to do with taking something to its roots. Daredevil is not restricted to be Matt Murdock only. Just because Ultimate Matt died in Ultimatum doesn't mean that a true-to-its-roots Daredevil story can't be told with Ray Connor. Get over it.

Daredevil's roots are with Matt Murdock. No way around it. You can paint it any color you want. You can't be true to the roots with a replacement. You mentioned Dick Grayson as Batman, but there's one key difference. Bruce Wayne isn't dead. He's got his own return story going. Not so in Ultimate. If Matt were alive Ray Connor could compliment him the way X-23 compliments Wolverine. But he's not and trying to replace him with some kid is bad enough, but calling it a return to a character's roots? That's just weapon's grade terrible.

[The Gorn Identity]

The Black Widow, Wasp, Hulk and Wolverine replacements have all been laughably bad.

That's an opinion I do not share. I really like the new Red Wasp and Black Widow characters. And Nerd Hulk isn't replacing the Banner Hulk because he's still around.

Whats Iron Man's original 616 armor doing in that last preview page is what I want to know. From what I remember he didn't have that armor here in the Ultimate universe.

From all indications, the armored man is NOT Tony Stark.

I'm trying to figure out just how many truckloads of shit this is. If somebody out there with a calculator could help me out?

The calculations are in: ZERO truckloads. Ultimate Avengers is a highly enjoyable series and you can tell Millar and his artists are having a great time working on it.

[RCourtney]

Daredevil's roots are with Matt Murdock. No way around it. You can paint it any color you want. You can't be true to the roots with a replacement.

It's just a name. Millar never got to write Ultimate Daredevil; and Daredevil was hardly "Ultimaized" in his minis. And according to you, Ultimization is what the Ult U is all about. Why can't Daredevil be reimagined into a new name? Nick Fury became black; that's not the Fury we all know, but people seem okay with it. Taking the character to its roots is just about reimagining the original appearances of Daredevil. So what if he has a different name?

You mentioned Dick Grayson as Batman, but there's one key difference. Bruce Wayne isn't dead. He's got his own return story going. Not so in Ultimate. If Matt were alive Ray Connor could compliment him the way X-23 compliments Wolverine. But he's not and trying to replace him with some kid is bad enough, but calling it a return to a character's roots? That's just weapon's grade terrible.

Okay, so he's not "technically" dead. But Bruce was effectively dead in-universe for over a year, and Dick took over in that time. Just like Bucky did for two years while Steve was "dead."

But if those don't count, then what about:

Dick Grayson as Robin?
Wally West as the Flash?
Any of the 5 Captain Marvel's we've had since Mar-Vell died?

Those are essentially no different than what the new DD is doing. Stick feels like there needs to be a Daredevil, so he's training Ray to become that. Look at it from an in-universe perspective and it will make sense to you.

[WeaponX7373]

Personally if I want to read about five guys running around under the same code name I would read DC comics. One of the reasons I choose marvel was because they didn't go and keep reinventing their characters. Listen if Ultimatium had cleared the way for truely new characters so be it. But if you are going to just make new versions of the old characters well thats just pointless and redundant.

Can I see why you would write characters in this way? Yes, but I thought that was why I wasn't making a living writting stories.

That said I am much more interested in Millar's version of super heroes vs. vampires.

[iSlash]

This made me roll my eyes at least six times. Miller is talking about losing focus and getting away from the original concepts of the characters, yet for whatever reason it doesn't bother him that killing off all these characters was not remotely part of the game. I honestly don't know what to make of this. I don't want to call Miller a hypocrite because he's right on many levels. Ultimate is about a re-imagining of classic characters and the series has always been distinguished by being closer to the real world than 616. Yet he seems to negate that you can't take something back to it's roots when that something was killed. All you can do is make half-hearted replacements. That's basically what he admits to doing with the new Daredevil. I don't want to go off on another rant about the post-Ultimatum status quo, but it sure is tempting.

I actually see it as a way to justify bring Daredevil back. He's clearly unhappy about Loeb killing him off during Ultimatum.

[Zombie Uatu]

I actually see it as a way to justify bring Daredevil back. He's clearly unhappy about Loeb killing him off during Ultimatum.

He's Ultimatizing the character. That's what he's doing. He's moved it away from the MU version and into something modern and updated, the same as every classic Ultimatization has been done. Ray Connor is hardly a replacement. He's a new version of Daredevil who has a legacy element and is a teen learning about his abilities and dealing with his disabilities, which is something 616 Daredevil has never addressed. He's not a "replacement" or a justified resurrection of the old Daredevil, he's Ultimate Daredevil.