Birds of Prey 2, Penguin and Guy Gardner... Spoilers

[Mark_S]

Really, I think they have a few things in common. There he is, in an alley, shot, bleeding and he says "The dear lovely child with the soft pillowy bossom is mistaken, I can't got to a hospital." This after oggling said bosom while she was protecting him. This to me is a Guy attitude, mortal danger be damned, hooters are near!

The tension goes up with this and I really begin to wonder if we are looking at Sin in the white get up. If Hawk holds onto that hair they should be able to tell. Can't say I'm sorry to see Savant or Creote go, never liked them much. Some good running and fighting, dumb cops (but are there any other kind in Gotham, really? I mean really...) and I'm still new enough to Hawk and Dove to find them interesting so far.

Mark_S

[Bodhi M.]

At first I thought it was either Lady Shiva, or Casandra Cain (Batgirl), but I suppose it could be Sin; but shouldn't she be a lot younger? It could also be someone completely new, though that might just be a bit of a let down after all of the hubbub over who this character is.

I was also sad to see Savant and Create killed, as I really enjoyed those characters when they first appeared. Granted, they haven't done anything meaningful for some time, but with a bit of work, they could have become interesting again.

As for the inclusion of the Hawk and Dove, I think Dove will fit in great, but for Hawk, this is going to take some serious shoe-horning. I almost think the need to split these two up, as they just don't work well together. The original Hawk and Dove were opposites, but they were also a part of one another; I just don't get that feeling with this Hawk and Dove.

The Penguin moment was hilarious, and I agree, that could have easily come from Guy, but with a little less tact.

[matt levin]

Hawk and Dove have always annoyed me, only slightly less so now Dove's female. Always felt Hawk's portrayal to be damningly superficial and stereotypical. I am certainly not one myself, but I have known some hawks who are thoughtful, intellectual people not prone to physical violence themselves but very willing to be forceful in their argument.

I like the part of this story dealing with someone getting through to ex-Batgirl Barbara, and really liked old Cobblepot's portrayal this issue. I like the 'trap' set and sprung. I really want to see the whole team working as a group together; unfortunately for me, I also see this particular group of women becoming easily politically involved: I think they'd all agree on many issues, and be inclined to act rather...independently of national laws.

Didn't know the people who got killed, or care who the villain this story is. Hopefully by story's end, I will. It's only issue 2; still well worth sticking around for.

[Ed Love]

That was one of the great things about the Hawk & Dove series by Kessel. He explored what made Hawk a hero and a person, what his character strengths were as opposed to the stereotypical flaws. He became a guy that was fiercely loyal to friends and family, that deeply mourned his brother and would be willing literally to storm the gates of heaven and hell to get him back if he could.

Then Armageddon 2001 completely missed the point of the series and characters and ruined the characters for almost a decade.

[Red Comet]

I feel like whatever leash Ed Benes was previously held back by in the T & A department was snapped for this issue. Ass shots in almost every single panel, even when they should have been physically impossible. Thongs galore. It was extremely distracting, and not in a positive way. I was willing to buy this title despite Benes, because it seemed like he was keeping himself in check in the first issue. I guess I'll see if this is a pattern next month.


I'm not thrilled about the loss of two (or maybe one and a half?) of the few openly gay characters in DC getting killed to make another person feel bad, either.

But I'm really getting into the mystery here. Barbara doesn't have Batman's money to rely on anymore in the tech department so she's got to get back to her roots. The team is learning to fight together again. Dove is so-so for the time being, but Hawk seems to be getting set up to maybe learn a thing or two.

[DLH1970]

That was one of the great things about the Hawk & Dove series by Kessel. He explored what made Hawk a hero and a person, what his character strengths were as opposed to the stereotypical flaws. He became a guy that was fiercely loyal to friends and family, that deeply mourned his brother and would be willing literally to storm the gates of heaven and hell to get him back if he could.

Then Armageddon 2001 completely missed the point of the series and characters and ruined the characters for almost a decade.

Well said. I couldn't agree more.

[Retrodork]

I agree for the most part. That series did try to make his character a bit more sympathetic, but it was an uphill climb for me to ever entertain it. I never liked Hawk, always thought he was just a one-dimensional assshat, 'roided out and coasting on anger. Everything I've seen of him since his resurrection mirrors this. Hopefully, he'll get a little depth to him, but I'm not holding my breath.

[GiantRaven]

I feel like whatever leash Ed Benes was previously held back by in the T & A department was snapped for this issue. Ass shots in almost every single panel, even when they should have been physically impossible. Thongs galore. It was extremely distracting, and not in a positive way. I was willing to buy this title despite Benes, because it seemed like he was keeping himself in check in the first issue. I guess I'll see if this is a pattern next month.

Damn right. The panel that struck me the most was the one with the entire team, asses shown off front, left and centre...except for Hawk who was shoved off to one side, completely devoid of any rectal showing off.

That just seemed to be rubbing in the whole shtick of 'HEY LOOK AS THESE BIG BREASTED GIRLS REARS!!! ISN'T IT AWESOME!!! CAUSE YOU'RE A GUY AND YOU LIKE LOOKING AT THINGS LIKE THAT!!!'. Which I find, quite frankly, a little pathetic.

Of course I could just be reading into things a little bit too much...

[Red Comet]

Haha, I don't think you're reading anything into it that isn't there plain as day. I mean, what else can you read into that? I wasn't a huge fan of that massive crotch/thong shot of Huntress near the beginning either. It sucks, because otherwise I like a lot of his line work. I'm still not a fan of his faces, but I like his muscles and non-cheesecake action shots.

Also on a slightly different note I was wondering.. is Benes drawing Huntress with her belly exposed or not? There doesn't seem to be a definitive line marking the borders of skin and costume there. It almost looks like he's drawing her fully covered in the front and then the colorist is just putting the hole in himself.

[Mark_S]

Damn right. The panel that struck me the most was the one with the entire team, asses shown off front, left and centre...except for Hawk who was shoved off to one side, completely devoid of any rectal showing off.

That just seemed to be rubbing in the whole shtick of 'HEY LOOK AS THESE BIG BREASTED GIRLS REARS!!! ISN'T IT AWESOME!!! CAUSE YOU'RE A GUY AND YOU LIKE LOOKING AT THINGS LIKE THAT!!!'. Which I find, quite frankly, a little pathetic.

Of course I could just be reading into things a little bit too much...

Maybe, I didn't really notice it at all until you pointed it out. But then I read Tarot, Witch of the Black Rose so my standards for that sort of thing are very high

Mark_S

[Arachne]

Haha, I don't think you're reading anything into it that isn't there plain as day. I mean, what else can you read into that? I wasn't a huge fan of that massive crotch/thong shot of Huntress near the beginning either. It sucks, because otherwise I like a lot of his line work. I'm still not a fan of his faces, but I like his muscles and non-cheesecake action shots.

I agree. I'm kind of embarrassed to recommend this to friends because of all the T&A, even with Gail's great writing.

Also on a slightly different note I was wondering.. is Benes drawing Huntress with her belly exposed or not? There doesn't seem to be a definitive line marking the borders of skin and costume there. It almost looks like he's drawing her fully covered in the front and then the colorist is just putting the hole in himself.

It think Gail mentioned somewhere else (her own forum?) that it was agreed in issue #1 that the belly window would be filled in, but there was a mix up at the last minute. IIRC, it'll be gone again when Huntress gets time to change.

[Red Comet]

Interesting. That makes me happy if true. Though would it kill her to put on some pants? :p

[Black Hood]

That was one of the great things about the Hawk & Dove series by Kessel. He explored what made Hawk a hero and a person, what his character strengths were as opposed to the stereotypical flaws. He became a guy that was fiercely loyal to friends and family, that deeply mourned his brother and would be willing literally to storm the gates of heaven and hell to get him back if he could.

Then Armageddon 2001 completely missed the point of the series and characters and ruined the characters for almost a decade.

It's a sad thing, really: Monarch was supposed to be Captain Atom, not Hawk. This was changed at the last minute because Monarch's secret identity was leaked before Armageddon 2001 ended.