Controversial Avengers Opinions

[Nomads1]

Remember when all the X-Men started to waer black leather? I keep waiting for the day Thor will let his beard grow again, leave his helmet definitly at home and the Avengers start to work once and for all again for SHIELD.

SPOILERS:

Though, at the end, they did server relations with the governmental organization, so there is still hope that this won't happen.

Peace

[tommyman]

How is it going to work if all the other teams suddenly get replaced by one movie-team? Honestly I don't want to read that and I think it would ruin the franchise.

Well, it "worked" when the entire Avengers got replaced by Cage and co. back at the start of the Bendis Era, that was sudden.
If a "movie-team" book sold better than "new", then that would "work", too.
For a lot of us, the franchise got "ruined" a long time ago.

There's always going to be confusion, that's why marketing is important and not just piling all the books on a shelf and calling it a day. Clearly demarcate which one you should pick up based on the movie. Clearly show this on the Marvel website, and on Amazon, etc...

Anyway if it's set in 616 it's going to be very different just because the characters are different and their relationships are drastically different.

That's why Avengers Assemble just puts the continuity on hold and (if it's good) will gently introduce new readers to the Avengers as they are in comics, rather than as they are in the movie.

Maybe they should start a new line like the Ultimate universe. That might be better actually.

Maybe you've hit on why the successful movies of the last decade never seemed to bring in any new readers in any numbers, because the books just aren't close enough to the films (or vice versa).
I know they made half-arsed attempts (organic webshooters, X-men in leather), but maybe they should just have a movie-verse line of comics, since they already have at least 3 separate lines anyway (regular 616, ulti-verse and marvel adventures).
Then new readers could go to that, see what they know and want, and maybe it would rejuvenate sales for once.

[Wren]

Well, it "worked" when the entire Avengers got replaced by Cage and co. back at the start of the Bendis Era, that was sudden.
If a "movie-team" book sold better than "new", then that would "work", too.
For a lot of us, the franchise got "ruined" a long time ago.

Yeah but right now the franchise is supporting 4 different books. New Avengers was basically a roster change, with new characters. Making it movie-centric involves putting away 3 books which are all selling profitably.

But yes I do agree that maybe a whole movie-verse line would be cool. Although considering the movies keep coming out, it would either quickly run away on its' own, or be kind of slow and predictable... not sure if it would work in the long-term. Maybe having individual sets of issues that are really self-contained would be ok.

[tommyman]

Yeah but right now the franchise is supporting 4 different books. New Avengers was basically a roster change, with new characters. Making it movie-centric involves putting away 3 books which are all selling profitably.

But yes I do agree that maybe a whole movie-verse line would be cool. Although considering the movies keep coming out, it would either quickly run away on its' own, or be kind of slow and predictable... not sure if it would work in the long-term. Maybe having individual sets of issues that are really self-contained would be ok.

I dunno, you've got a crapload of Captain America stories in WW2 that got skipped over in the movie, and also the as yet untold stories about him coming to terms with the modern world. That's a year or two worth of comics. Five years worth of written-for-trade comics.
Thor has a crapload of Asgardian adventures which could be told, or some set on earth in earlier times. Plus Loki and the other Asgardians. Warriors 3, Sif, Heimdall, lotsa good stuff to be explored.
Iron Man is a little more problematic, as he's the one who does not appear to have many untold adventures before, after or in-between his films.
Black Widow and Hawkeye clearly have loads of backstory that could be told, as does Fury and Coulson.
Who knows what Hulk got up to between films?
It seems to me you've actually got a lot of material for most of the individual characters that just fills in gaps around the films.

But the Avengers themselves are again a problem, I admit. Difficult to see how you could do much with the whole team without second guessing the next film and possibly undermining it if they want to keep the Avengers as a "last resort".
It'd be a lot easier to do movie X-men, FF or Spidey comics at the moment.
But if they got some plots from Whedon to run with for the Avengers, they'd be in business.

I've decided that they can use my idea, for a very reasonable 30% cut to me of any profits...

[RDMacQ]

It's genuine confusion about the point of small stuff like Black Nick Fury, Coulson and Ultimate/Movie Hawkeye if one of the books you publish under the Avengers imprint features a cast that is nothing like the movie you are supposed to be lining your books up with (not you, obviously. A rhetorical "you" aimed at Marvel).

Right.

So it's another attempt to bitch about Bendis. Kind of thought so.

Surely they could at least bring in one of the movies heroes, so there would be some sort of reference point for the alleged "new readers".
As it is, you have Wolverine, an X-man, and Spiderman, both in movies but not in THE avengers movie. Then there's a bunch of people no movie goer will know or care about.
They might as well call the book "Movie goers, £$%^ off!", because that is the effect it's likely to have.

I suppose that if Bendis is leaving, (and it seems to be taking a suspiciously long time for him to go), the book may well be cancelled or re-tooled to look like an actual Avengers team.

I suspect Secret Avengers to be nearly as bad for new readers, but at least there you have Hawkeye, and Cap to show it's an Avengers book.

It just seems weird to have all this publicity, all this attention from the enormously successful movie, and to willfully field this obscure unattractive (to movie goers) team under that name.
We know they are quite happy to piss off the comic book buying customers they already had, apparently they intend to continue that trend with any new ones the movie might bring in.
I can hear it now: "if you want Cap/Thor/Hulk/Iron man, you can always go watch the movie again, nobody can take that away from you"

You know what- there's an entire book that's dedicated to the team from the movies. I think that's enough.

[tigerkaya]

I liked it better when the X-men were Marvels main focus and the Avengers were the obscure title.

[tommyman]

Right.

So it's another attempt to bitch about Bendis. Kind of thought so.

I'm hurt that you don't know me well enough by now to know I would not bother to hide my dislike of his writing.
I said earlier in the thread that to some extent Secret Avengers has the same question over it, "how does a new, movie-induced reader make sense of it?"
It's a genuine question.
It could be asked of Academy, and I love that book.
And it's entirely possible that with "no more avengers", Marvel is going to answer my question.

[RDMacQ]

I'm hurt that you don't know me well enough by now to know I would not bother to hide my dislike of his writing.
I said earlier in the thread that to some extent Secret Avengers has the same question over it, "how does a new, movie-induced reader make sense of it?"
It's a genuine question.
It could be asked of Academy, and I love that book.
And it's entirely possible that with "no more avengers", Marvel is going to answer my question.

And I answered.

Readers aren't stupid.

Trying to spin the success of the Avengers movie into another diatribe against Bendis' work on the title is just reaching to the extreme degree. Especially when you have to overlook the stuff he HAS done TO tie an Avengers comic INTO the movie in order to keep finding things to bitch about.

I get that you don't like the guys work. But you don't have to make everything into a criticism of Bendis.

[tommyman]

And I answered.

Readers aren't stupid.

Trying to spin the success of the Avengers movie into another diatribe against Bendis' work on the title is just reaching to the extreme degree. Especially when you have to overlook the stuff he HAS done TO tie an Avengers comic INTO the movie in order to keep finding things to bitch about.

I get that you don't like the guys work. But you don't have to make everything into a criticism of Bendis.

I've never been shy about criticizing the talentless hack, why would I bother to try to sneak in a criticism now?
I get that you love him, but not everything is about him, or you.
Thanks for the answer, but like I said earlier, you aren't who I wanted an answer from, really.
And since Marvel seems to be doing "no more Avengers" in AvX, perhaps they think my question has some merit, if that portends a restructuring of their Avengers titles.
Or not, we shall see.
You are back on "ignore" for me, though.

[RDMacQ]

I've never been shy about criticizing the talentless hack, why would I bother to try to sneak in a criticism now?
I get that you love him, but not everything is about him, or you.
Thanks for the answer, but like I said earlier, you aren't who I wanted an answer from, really.
And since Marvel seems to be doing "no more Avengers" in AvX, perhaps they think my question has some merit, if that portends a restructuring of their Avengers titles.
Or not, we shall see.
You are back on "ignore" for me, though.

Dude, seriously?

You're trying to spin "No More Avengers"... into a criticism against BENDIS? That somehow Bendis' Avengers are so REVILED, that Marvel is going to get rid of them ENTIRELY?

Yeah, No, I don't think your question has merit. At all. If you are confusing a promo for an inditement- if you are fully willing to believe a teaser for an event comic- is somehow a massive sign from Marvel that Bendis' contributions to the Avenges has been a massive failure and everyone at the company dislikes it- then you're more far gone than I realized. This is the epitome of LOOKING for something to complain about.

This is so far gone past "a difference of opinion" and is now onto full blown delusion. If you are willing to twist ANYthing into an anti-Bendis diatribe, it shows not an open yet critical one but one obsessed with enforcing his narrow minded view of the world regardless of the fact that it has any bearing in reality. You're inventing your own narrative.

[Frank]

I liked it better when the X-men were Marvels main focus and the Avengers were the obscure title.

Kinda share the same idea. I just miss the times when the X-Men were THE X-MEN!!! When it was the blockbuster of the season.

The Avengers were never obscure, they always had more than a few titles but at along the way it felt like they did not need to be the big blockbuster titles, what was important was that they were the most noble heroes, sure their titles were more old school and traditional and did not sold as well but so what it was part of the charm. They were The Stones to the X-Men's Nirvana.

[Frank]

Avengers Assemble should replace Avengers and New Avengers when Bendis leaves. It has the movie line-up that Marvel wants to market. Just get a good creative team on it and focus on this title alone.

[tommyman]

Dude, seriously?

You're trying to spin "No More Avengers"... into a criticism against BENDIS? That somehow Bendis' Avengers are so REVILED, that Marvel is going to get rid of them ENTIRELY?

Yeah, No, I don't think your question has merit. At all. If you are confusing a promo for an inditement- if you are fully willing to believe a teaser for an event comic- is somehow a massive sign from Marvel that Bendis' contributions to the Avenges has been a massive failure and everyone at the company dislikes it- then you're more far gone than I realized. This is the epitome of LOOKING for something to complain about.

This is so far gone past "a difference of opinion" and is now onto full blown delusion. If you are willing to twist ANYthing into an anti-Bendis diatribe, it shows not an open yet critical one but one obsessed with enforcing his narrow minded view of the world regardless of the fact that it has any bearing in reality. You're inventing your own narrative.

See, this is why you are on ignore.
You're one of those sad little men who keep just below the radar of Moderators, goading people, stopping just short of actual name-calling and insult, but making sure that there is plenty of insulting tone and innuendo.
I'm sure that works well for you.

The bottom line is this:
The most popular movie on the planet is about a traditional old-fashioned Avengers line up.
I know this, Marvel know this. Bendis knows this. Only you seem unaware of it
They are re-adjusting the comics to be in line with the movie, so there will be changes.
Bendis is already having to write a completely old-school Avengers title, sans Cage, sans Wolverine, sans everything that marked his reign.
If you came in now and read Avengers Assemble you'd never know the "new avengers" era had happened.
It's already gone.
And the lone and level sands stretch far away...

[RDMacQ]

See, this is why you are on ignore.
You're one of those sad little men who keep just below the radar of Moderators, goading people, stopping just short of actual name-calling and insult, but making sure that there is plenty of insulting tone and innuendo.
I'm sure that works well for you.

The bottom line is this:
The most popular movie on the planet is about a traditional old-fashioned Avengers line up.
I know this, Marvel know this. Bendis knows this. Only you seem unaware of it
They are re-adjusting the comics to be in line with the movie, so there will be changes.
Bendis is already having to write a completely old-school Avengers title, sans Cage, sans Wolverine, sans everything that marked his reign.
If you came in now and read Avengers Assemble you'd never know the "new avengers" era had happened.
It's already gone.
And the lone and level sands stretch far away...

Yeah. A popular movie has a classic lineup. And Bendis has released a comic that features that lineup in order to tie in to the movie.

However, saying that this is "proof" that Bendis' choices were wrong or that he is a bad writer is a logical leap to insane, delusional degrees. You're not just twisting facts to suit your pre-written narrative, you're warping them to such a degree I can't even comprehend how you'd come to that conclusion save that you were willingly going out of your way to push this square peg into a round hole.

Stating "basic facts" does not prove your insanely delusional theories. It's leaping from point A to point Orange. The only way this makes sense if is EVERYONE dislikes Bendis as much as you do. And given that Marvel KEEPS GIVING HIM WORK, that seems very unlikely.

[nosocialize100]

Avengers Assemble should replace Avengers and New Avengers when Bendis leaves. It has the movie line-up that Marvel wants to market. Just get a good creative team on it and focus on this title alone.

Good idea, but why are people hating on it so much? I reviewed it at the link in my signature this week, and I loved the heck out of it. Nice surprises, good dialogue and good action.