Controversial Avengers Opinions

[Nomads1]

I wouldn't give the "fired" thing much credence. Seems more like a brief attention grabbing stunt than any lineup change. As soon as Spidey gets his body back (Which looks to be late summer) he'll be "back" on the team. If it even is addressed in the Avengers comics in the first place (They seem to be more interested in Tony and Steve than the other characters).

I agree. Though I'm openly against the inclusion of Spider-Man as a regular member and Wolverine being connected in any way to the Avengers, I really don't see the decision makers at Marvel letting go of that bone. They are still always on the money shots, all the promotional art, most variants. It's not about story sense, it's about dragging in that casual reader.

By the way, speaking of Wolverine, tangentially, at least, just comming in from watching Les Misarables with the wife. Certainly not my kind of film, but Hugh "Logan" Jackman sure deserves an oscar for his performance as Jean Valjean, especially in the first 15 minutes of the film. And it'll be criminal if Anne Hathaway doesn't get one for her role as Fantine. Truly fantastic.

Peace

[Predabot]

That should not be hard, I like Johns but his Avengers stuff was quite unremarkable. I even prefer Austen's Avengers.

I wouldn't go as low as ranking it with Austen's terrible run, but it's certainly one of the weakest of the modern Avengers-runs. And most DEFINITELY some of Geoff Johns weakest work of all time. Really, he could have done so much better, but he gone an' f***ed it up.

I've been hearing really good stuff about post-Bendis Avengers Assemble. Really can't wait to try it out in TPB (I've gone full trade waiting mode). I've skimmed Hickman Avengers, and found it OK, but it really doesn't seem like it's gonna give me the Avengers fix I've been craving for the last 9 years. Maybe AA will be it. I just hope it's not generally ignored and seen as a secondary "doesn't matter" title.

Peace

Where have you been hearing that buzz? These forums seem pretty much completely quiet about it. I certainly hope you can find something you like tho, Nomads.

I checked out some of the previews, and some reviews, but... I don't know, it kind of immediately gives me that feeling that you mentioned - secondary, non-relevant title, where the writer is just phoning it in, and doing too simplified stories, meant to be fitting for the younger movie-audiences.

Hell, even Bendis story, that featured something of a cosmic epic, gave me that feeling. These latest issues gave it to me even more. Where's the scope? Where's the passion? Where are the big villains, and advanced characterization? Nowhere.

The Uncanny Avengers are fighting a grave-robbing Red Skull, Apocalypse, and Kang himself. The Adjectiveless are gearing up for an epic throw-down with the entire New Universe, and NA are killing and saving whole universes.

Where does that leave this book? Nowhere. It can't compete. But I suppose it's not meant to. But even so, I just wish DeConnick was a bit more ambitious. Not everyone has to be Hickman, or Morrison, but she's not even doing the kind of stuff that early Busiek did.

In fact, her first story kind of reminds me of a small-scale Red Zone...

[Tiamatican]

Where have you been hearing that buzz? These forums seem pretty much completely quiet about it. I certainly hope you can find something you like tho, Nomads.

I checked out some of the previews, and some reviews, but... I don't know, it kind of immediately gives me that feeling that you mentioned - secondary, non-relevant title, where the writer is just phoning it in, and doing too simplified stories, meant to be fitting for the younger movie-audiences.

Hell, even Bendis story, that featured something of a cosmic epic, gave me that feeling. These latest issues gave it to me even more. Where's the scope? Where's the passion? Where are the big villains, and advanced characterization? Nowhere.

The Uncanny Avengers are fighting a grave-robbing Red Skull, Apocalypse, and Kang himself. The Adjectiveless are gearing up for an epic throw-down with the entire New Universe, and NA are killing and saving whole universes.

Where does that leave this book? Nowhere. It can't compete. But I suppose it's not meant to. But even so, I just wish DeConnick was a bit more ambitious. Not everyone has to be Hickman, or Morrison, but she's not even doing the kind of stuff that early Busiek did.

In fact, her first story kind of reminds me of a small-scale Red Zone...

Given the huge scale the other Avengers titles are going, I think DeConnick should have Assemble focus on character relationships. The main Avengers title, so far, is totally lacking that. New Avengers is full of cerebral characters, with no heart. Uncanny Avengers . . . well, it keeps getting delayed, for one thing. DeConnick should use Assemble as a light, fun book, full of character interaction and highlighting the tight relationships a lot of them have. That could be its place. Something people can unwind with between the epics.

[Frank]

I wouldn't go as low as ranking it with Austen's terrible run, but it's certainly one of the weakest of the modern Avengers-runs. And most DEFINITELY some of Geoff Johns weakest work of all time. Really, he could have done so much better, but he gone an' f***ed it up..

I dislike both runs but what gives Austen the edge was 1. I like the way he integrated magic elements with the Morgan Le Fey/Wrecking Crew Story. and 2. He created a new character(Lionheart).

[Nomads1]

Given the huge scale the other Avengers titles are going, I think DeConnick should have Assemble focus on character relationships. The main Avengers title, so far, is totally lacking that. New Avengers is full of cerebral characters, with no heart. Uncanny Avengers . . . well, it keeps getting delayed, for one thing. DeConnick should use Assemble as a light, fun book, full of character interaction and highlighting the tight relationships a lot of them have. That could be its place. Something people can unwind with between the epics.

I could go with that, but I also agree with Predabot in the sense that only that won't be enough. You are gonna need some legitmate threats to make it relevant. Hickman seems to be focussed on new (or, at the very leat, revamped) huge threats. Maybe AA could be the place where we revisit old Avengers foes, mabye even going as far as making them more relevant. A definitive Zodiac Cartel (an idea that I always found veru appealing and full of potential, but that, IMO, I've yet to see well explored), the return of Graviton, proving once and for all that he's in Nefaria or Magneto's level when it comes to being a threat, a re-invented Master Pandemonium, maybe even going as far as hinting that he is just the tip of the iceberg for something much bigger and more terrifying, the ressurgence of Doc Demonicus and the PacificOverlords, bringing back Demonica as a land of criminals, Lord Templar, Pagan, the Elements of Doom, the Collector, etc... The list, and the possibilities really are endless. The line-up of AA could also be more flexible, rotating the members with occasional former Avengers, or Avengers that are not serving with the main team now. I do like that it seems to be the book where you don't have to have a Wolverine or a Spider-Man cameo every issue.

Peace

PS: Oh, and Predabot, though I have seen some positive comments on AA in this forum, I've also heard good word of mouth about it in the few places I go to around here in Rio where you can find comics fans.

[strathcona]

Yeah, and none of that has been reflected in the Avengers. The most we got is Spidey SAYING he wanted to quit the Avengers because he was in the Future Foundation, but never actually quitting. And that was more due to events happening in the Future Foundation rather than the Spider-Man books.

'Sides, all Peter has to say is "I was possessed by Otto. I wasn't myself." And he's back. If that is even ever reflected in the main series.

While I can see this happening, I hope you are wrong. I would much rather see Superior Spider-Man leave the Avengers books for a few months (however long this new status quo sticks) and not have the real Spidey return after everything gets fixed up. Give room on the roster for characters that Hickman can actually do something with.

[strathcona]

I hate the character Hyperion, for the fact he's either written brainwashed or an evil version just to give writers the excuse to write another Superman vs Thor or Hulk.

I'm not a fan of Hickman using Hyperion as the Superman to the team. Thats what Hulk and Thor are written for, (more so for Thor for his connection to his mythos and of the cosmic side.

I have always loved Hyperion (the whole Squadron actually... Gruenwald's mini is still one of the best stories ever), I will reply to this to say that I wasn't too find of Hickman's Thor in #4. I am not a big Thor fan really, but him talking about booze just didn't seem right to me.