Controversial Avengers Opinions

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Another controversial opinion.

I like 616 Falcon more than Ultimate Falcon.

With some real focus (ie: mini-series), and a very specific style of writer (and no, "good" doesn't cut it. Brubaker's a great writer, and I doubt he'd be capable), he can be a better character too.

[SomeBodyAtCBR]

We are not disagreeing. At this point, the profitable play for Marvel is to treat the comics (which generate de minimis revenue) as source and promotional material for the movies. They can provide stories, work out characterizations, and keep the fan-boy buzz machine going (which is better than $20 million spent on ads). But the comics aren't the revenue driver of the business anymore.

Ok, then I misunderstood your stand. I thought you meant that comics were going to become saturated with stars from the movies (which rightfully they are), but not give other characters a chance to reach popularity. The way I see it, we're kind of the beta-testers for Marvel.

[Corey W]

Ok, then I misunderstood your stand. I thought you meant that comics were going to become saturated with stars from the movies (which rightfully they are), but not give other characters a chance to reach popularity. The way I see it, we're kind of the beta-testers for Marvel.

We are definitely the beta testers. It is an interesting unexpected development for long time readers.

[Wren]

We are definitely the beta testers. It is an interesting unexpected development for long time readers.

Although considering that for example Avengers comics have become a lot less "experimental" in their casting, it might be kind of a biased test.

[carabas]

We are not disagreeing. At this point, the profitable play for Marvel is to treat the comics (which generate de minimis revenue) as source and promotional material for the movies. They can provide stories, work out characterizations, and keep the fan-boy buzz machine going (which is better than $20 million spent on ads). But the comics aren't the revenue driver of the business anymore.

I don't think so...

The comicbook audience is so pathetically tiny nowthat it generates negligible buzz on its own. And what we like is quite often very excentric and not even remotely palatable to mainstream audiences. Comics are also entirely useless as promotional material since less than 1% of your audience will read one unles forced at gunpoint.

[Nomads1]

Although considering that for example Avengers comics have become a lot less "experimental" in their casting, it might be kind of a biased test.

Good point.

Peace

[Nomads1]

I don't think so...

The comicbook audience is so pathetically tiny nowthat it generates negligible buzz on its own. And what we like is quite often very excentric and not even remotely palatable to mainstream audiences. Comics are also entirely useless as promotional material since less than 1% of your audience will read one unles forced at gunpoint.

I disagree with you there. Comicbook audience is not composed soley of current readers. The movies are being so successful because they attract readers from all walks and times of life. Guys that even sampled a few comic books, twenty years ago, casual readers, or even hardcore readers that may have gotten over the habit. That's a lot more than 1%. And that is the target audience of the great studios. It can also be a renewable audience, since evey year new readers fall into that same category, more than those that become regular readers, and that is for whom the comic industry seems to be being mantained. It's an intresting topic, but most on what we can discuss are impressions and speculations. None of us are privy to what goes on behind the closed doors of the investors board meetings.

Peace

[Corey W]

I disagree with you there. Comicbook audience is not composed soley of current readers. The movies are being so successful because they attract readers from all walks and times of life. Guys that even sampled a few comic books, twenty years ago, casual readers, or even hardcore readers that may have gotten over the habit. That's a lot more than 1%. And that is the target audience of the great studios. It can also be a renewable audience, since evey year new readers fall into that same category, more than those that become regular readers, and that is for whom the comic industry seems to be being mantained. It's an intresting topic, but most on what we can discuss are impressions and speculations. None of us are privy to what goes on behind the closed doors of the investors board meetings.

Peace

It is also the case that comicon buzz is increasingly important to summer blockbusters. The buzz out of comicon is similar to the buzz out of Cannes for more serious films. And die hard comic fans are a disproportionate percentage of the comicon audience.

[carabas]

I disagree with you there. Comicbook audience is not composed soley of current readers. The movies are being so successful because they attract readers from all walks and times of life. Guys that even sampled a few comic books, twenty years ago, casual readers, or even hardcore readers that may have gotten over the habit. That's a lot more than 1%. And that is the target audience of the great studios. It can also be a renewable audience, since evey year new readers fall into that same category, more than those that become regular readers, and that is for whom the comic industry seems to be being mantained. It's an intresting topic, but most on what we can discuss are impressions and speculations. None of us are privy to what goes on behind the closed doors of the investors board meetings.

You're confusing the superhero audience with the comicbook audience. Guys that even sampled a few comic books twenty years ago are most defniely not part of the comicbook audience.

And what new readers?

[Wren]

I don't think so...

The comicbook audience is so pathetically tiny nowthat it generates negligible buzz on its own. And what we like is quite often very excentric and not even remotely palatable to mainstream audiences. Comics are also entirely useless as promotional material since less than 1% of your audience will read one unles forced at gunpoint.

I wouldn't say that comic audiences are terribly eccentric. AvX is really formulaic if anything. Civil War? Skrull invasion? Disassembled? It's all stuff you can go mainstream with. There's stuff you can't, of course, but a lot of those plotlines rely too much on long-established continuity or need too much setup, not necessarily that they're bad.

I think that comic book audiences TOLERATE eccentric situations. In comics there's a tendency not to require as strict a continuity as in other mediums, so things like 180s in characterization are accepted and "suddenly, this new thing happens" is accepted where it wouldn't be in a movie. But not sure that it's what readers really enjoy about the genre.

[carabas]

I wouldn't say that comic audiences are terribly eccentric. AvX is really formulaic if anything. Civil War? Skrull invasion? Disassembled? It's all stuff you can go mainstream with. There's stuff you can't, of course, but a lot of those plotlines rely too much on long-established continuity or need too much setup, not necessarily that they're bad.

I think that comic book audiences TOLERATE eccentric situations. In comics there's a tendency not to require as strict a continuity as in other mediums, so things like 180s in characterization are accepted and "suddenly, this new thing happens" is accepted where it wouldn't be in a movie. But not sure that it's what readers really enjoy about the genre.

To get AvX you need to be somewhat familiar with the Dark Phoenix Saga, House Of Meh, the various Hope events, and more.

[Nomads1]

You're confusing the superhero audience with the comicbook audience. Guys that even sampled a few comic books twenty years ago are most defniely not part of the comicbook audience.

And what new readers?

I really didn't get you. What, guys that read Watchmen, V for Vendetta, or even Dark Knight returns 20-30 years ago, cannot be counted as comicbook audience? And you think they didn't contribute to the profits of Watchmen, V for Vendetta, Batman begins, and even the Marvel movies. Even if these guys are not contributing the the profit of comics now, they are part of the slice of the cake the studios are intrested in, and, once upon a time, comickbooks ewere the window through which they had acsses to these worlds, so I say it's fair to call them comicbook audience.
As for the new readers remark, as much as I wish I could, can't argue much with you there. Seems they are shooting themselves in their own foot there.

Peace

[carabas]

I really didn't get you. What, guys that read Watchmen, V for Vendetta, or even Dark Knight returns 20-30 years ago, cannot be counted as comicbook audience?

Eh, no. I would think that would be really clear. If I have not spent any money on comics in the last few decades then obviously I am not part of the comicbook audience, even if I have or once had a passing interest in the genre.

And you think they didn't contribute to the profits of Watchmen, V for Vendetta, Batman begins, and even the Marvel movies.

Not significantly.

Even if these guys are not contributing the the profit of comics now...

Then they are by definition part of the superhero movie audience, not the comicbook audience.

[Nomads1]

Eh, no. I would think that would be really clear. If I have not spent any money on comics in the last few decades then obviously I am not part of the comicbook audience, even if I have or once had a passing interest in the genre.

Not significantly.

Then they are by definition part of the superhero movie audience, not the comicbook audience.

I guess we see things differently in that regard. I don't see much distinction in your different categories. I get them, just don't agrre with it. Best agree to disagree on this.

Peace

[whiteshark]

To get AvX you need to be somewhat familiar with the Dark Phoenix Saga, House Of Meh, the various Hope events, and more.

Not really.
AvX have been writen in a way that new readers could get the story from issue one.
The basics of the story are more or less explained even in the first issue.
And readers that hapened to have read Dark Phoenix,House of M,and the Hope story arcs just have a more detailed back story of the main characters in AvX.