Young Justice

[Mormel]

so is your issue that more people don't look at animation in a more serious light or.....?

Not really an 'issue' as much as it's disappointment at how animation is kind of underestimated in its potential as a medium for dramatic storytelling aimed at adults. But like I said, there's good stuff out there, just gotta know where to look.

Anyway, that doesn't concern Young Justice, which, though I've enjoyed it like crayzee, I realize was aimed at folks younger than me.

[Xiroteus]

so is your issue that more people don't look at animation in a more serious light or.....?

That is what I meant as annoying, no matter the story some will ignore it just for that fact alone no matter if it was designed for kids or not.

So all this animation has to be based on selling toys.

[Mormel]

That is what I meant as annoying, no matter the story some will ignore it just for that fact alone no matter if it was designed for kids or not.

So all this animation has to be based on selling toys.

I'm not sure if that flies, though. Animaniacs, for example, was huge back in the day... the day being the early 90s, when merchandise-based cartoons were everywhere: Turtles was still going strong, Transformers was in syndication and selling its Generation Two toy line, yet here was Animaniacs riding completely on its own strengths. I don't remember any Animaniacs merchandise at all, although I'm sure it was around, especially in the US perhaps. But if it was, it was probably just the characters printed on stuff kids could use.

On a slightly related note, when I was a kid, I loved Gargoyles (big surprise!), yet I never felt the desire to buy Gargoyles toys. Curiously, at one point I actually drew some Gargoyles on paper, and cut them out so that I had improvised paper Gargoyles I would make fly around ('cause we were a poor family XP).

So did they really ax Young Justice because of low sales of toys and other merchandise, or is there another reason? Even if it's something as stupid as 'making room for the hot new thing (that may or may not sell toys)'?

All that aside, I've been watching some early episodes of YJ, and it served to remind me how great the show used to be, and what Invasion kinda took away... The chem between those original six was the heart and soul of the cartoon, and if you rip out the heart the body dies. It's really sad, because a lot of shows actually step up their game in the second season, but I feel as though with YJ, perhaps Invasion was a bit too ambitious in what it was trying to do.

[dr.maikel]

I loved all of this series mostly season 1.
So sad that is needs to move for that teen titan toddler show.
The ending was a bit forced and the dead seem not needed.
As for the season 2 it was not so good as one and it really didnt need all the new charackters great how they kept focus on the old team more still a bitt to much blue beetle a little to less Superboy.

[Mat001]

But...DC came out with Young Justice, Green Lantern, Teen Titans (twice now), DC Nation shorts, Brave & Bold, JLU, Static, Zeta Project, Legion of Super Heroes...

Most of which starred either Superman or Batman, or both. "Teen Titans" and "Teen Titans Go!" didn't have them and was a rare exception, though it did have Robin who was a proven commodity when it went to air. "The Zeta Project" was cancelled during it's first season and only made it to air because Batman would guest star and that it wasn't as dark as BB had been. "Static Shock" was a true exception, because having the DCAU characters guest starring boosted ratings. It probably wouldn't have lasted as long as they couldn't get a toyline made. GL was made because of the film and that did not go over well. The Legion happened because of Superman having a new film come out. Same with B&B and Batman.

Not sure how many other counties have this issue, the states attitude with animation in general is really annoying, aside from us comic fans it appears most adults see animation just for kids regardless of the story, sure pixar and disney can do okay, even so it still feels like most say they enjoy it because of their kids etc..

The Daytime Emmys see it differently, but that's because they take it different. Toy companies only see it as a means of generating revenue. Adults beyond that are a tough sale.

Even on the small screen, shows like Flintstones were (initially) primarily targeted at adults. I'm not sure what brought about the shift in mentality in the West that 'cartoons are for kids', shoving animation for adults into a niche market (either arthouse/indie, or the mainstream satirical shows like Simpsons and South Park).

The rise of television did that. Parents groups didn't want "Looney Toons" on television, which resulted in the shows being edited to air on Saturday mornings. Parents groups wanted educational stuff for their children. "The Flintstones", like "The Simpsons" after it, was marketed to kids after a time. That's why the former began to shift away by the middle of the show's run and afterwards was only seen on Saturday mornings. The latter had that right away and led to controversy during the first few seasons with kids having to turn their shirts inside out, if they wore them to school. I was one of those kids who faced that with my own Bart Simpson shirt.

Beyond that, though, it was essentially the rise of television that made parents and parents groups think that way. Toy makers, well, their job is to cater to kids first and foremost. If the kids aren't interested, they'll move on. The more mature nature of shows isn't what turned the kids away from GL and YJ. It just didn't appeal to them.

I'm not sure if that flies, though. Animaniacs, for example, was huge back in the day... the day being the early 90s, when merchandise-based cartoons were everywhere: Turtles was still going strong, Transformers was in syndication and selling its Generation Two toy line, yet here was Animaniacs riding completely on its own strengths. I don't remember any Animaniacs merchandise at all, although I'm sure it was around, especially in the US perhaps. But if it was, it was probably just the characters printed on stuff kids could use.

TMNT made it to air because of the toy deal. It lasted as long as it did because of it. "Transformers Generation 2" did not have a new cartoon series and because half of the line was older toys and some newer ones, it didn't do well in sales, which lead to the creation of "Beast Wars". Which was a new take on the existing concept of Transformers that turned into animals, only here, they looked more like the real deal. But the true test was the success of the new cartoon series and the toys, which resulted in the show running for three seasons. "Beast Machines" sales did not do well, which is why the cartoon didn't last longer and "Trans Tech" was cancelled in favor of importing "Car Robots" as "Robots In Disguise", which did very well.

As to "Animaniacs", here's what happened.

While on Kids' WB, Animaniacs gathered over one million children viewers every week.[33] However, Animaniacs was only successful in an unintended way, bringing in adult viewers and viewers outside the Kids' WB target demographic of young children.[50] This unintended result of adult viewers and not enough young viewers put pressure on the WB network from advertisers and caused dissatisfaction from the WB network towards Animaniacs.[50] Slowly, orders from the WB for more Animaniacs episodes dwindled and Animaniacs made it through a couple more short seasons, relying on leftover scripts and storyboards

The only merchandise were the video games.

So did they really ax Young Justice because of low sales of toys and other merchandise, or is there another reason? Even if it's something as stupid as 'making room for the hot new thing (that may or may not sell toys)'?

That's what it came down to. "Silverhawks" ran one season because the toys didn't sell. "Beast Machines" ran two seasons, but the toys didn't sell as well as Hasbro wanted. "Jem & The Holograms" was cancelled after one season because the toys didn't sell. If "Beware The Batman" fails, another cartoon will be made with toys to sell.