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Thread: Young Justice

  1. #3901
    Senior Member Theozilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalorama View Post
    That's a well-thought out explanation but it ignores a very basic truth: the Earth was under threat of imminent destruction and stopping Warworld was all that really mattered. Any and all resources had to be directed towards dealing with that threat, because if that threat wasn't eliminated, nothing else they did would have made a difference. Like Cat Grant said: "Do not attempt evacuation. There's nowhere for us to go." And there's no such thing as being "too unwieldy too operate" when the mission is to stop a killer satellite the size of the moon. And even if that were a valid reason, why not stock the infiltration team with the most powerful members (both League and Team) to maximize their chances of success? It made no sense to have the infiltration force made up entirely of the Team if that meant sending a less powerful force. What practical advantage was there to sending Arsenal and Guardian to face Mongul as opposed to Black Canary and Red Tornado? Whatever disaster relief work Dinah was doing probably could have been handled just as effectively by Mal. And why not send Atom, the League's resident super science genius? Bumblebee's smart, but she's still Ray Palmer's student. And, for that matter, why include Arsenal on the team that was confronting Mongul directly instead of Blue Beetle, who's much more physically powerful? (Yeah, I know the in-story reason why but the fact is, aside from obvious plot convenience, the decision made no sense.) I understand the need to make choices for the sake of moving the plot along, but at least some effort could be made to camouflage them a bit.

    All that aside, it was still a very entertaining episode.
    I think "too unwieldy to operate" still matters even faced with imminent destruction, more operatives does not always guarantee better chances of success.
    And if a Leaguer is handling a disaster they still are required to deal with it. Like do really think it would be in character for Aquaman to be saving a bunch of people from tsunamis to suddenly drop everything and "welp, see yah, I am going to fight the big thing in sky have fun drowning". No, he would stay and continue to help save people. That's basically (in terms of plot mechanics) what every Leaguer not on screen was likely doing, something that concerned a life or death situation that they could not be torn away from. Its not like a firefighter immediately abandons putting out a small house fire just because they have been told there is bigger house fire elsewhere.

  2. #3902

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zak213 View Post
    They didnt plan for Mongul's atttack but they were able to use it too their advantage.
    I disagree.

    "We have no weapons."
    "We only have one ship."

    Both proven to be lies and they lost 66.7% of their fleet, which none of the good guys knew about, making them far more aware of what they're dealing with and they've sent Roy Harper into angry paranoid mode.

  3. #3903

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emissary of Justice View Post
    I disagree.

    "We have no weapons."
    "We only have one ship."

    Both proven to be lies and they lost 66.7% of their fleet, which none of the good guys knew about, making them far more aware of what they're dealing with and they've sent Roy Harper into angry paranoid mode.
    They are going to take WarWorld as compensation for their fleet... which up until then they had claimed not to have and now the whole world knows they have been telling one hell of a lie. So what else have they been lying about? The Light wanted the Reach to show up, and get whatever they could from them, and now that they've done that so Vandal Savage winds up Mongul and sends him their way betting that the League will stop him so at the very least they get War World out of the deal. Getting rid of the Reach is going to require a hero/villian team up. The finale will probably have echoes of the JLU finale. And then it will end with everyone knowing that there's another five year timeskip coming that we will never get to see.

  4. #3904
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theozilla View Post
    I think "too unwieldy to operate" still matters even faced with imminent destruction, more operatives does not always guarantee better chances of success.
    They do when a mission requires raw power, which is what was needed to take down Mongul. But, as I already indicated, they didn't necessarily need more operatives, just more powerful ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theozilla View Post
    And if a Leaguer is handling a disaster they still are required to deal with it. Like do really think it would be in character for Aquaman to be saving a bunch of people from tsunamis to suddenly drop everything and "welp, see yah, I am going to fight the big thing in sky have fun drowning". No, he would stay and continue to help save people. That's basically (in terms of plot mechanics) what every Leaguer not on screen was likely doing, something that concerned a life or death situation that they could not be torn away from. Its not like a firefighter immediately abandons putting out a small house fire just because they have been told there is bigger house fire elsewhere.
    The destruction of Earth is not a "bigger house fire." It's . . . the destruction of Earth. There is no more important job. That being said, you're putting a self-serving spin on my words that is irrelevant to my point. They didn't have to pull Aquaman or anyone else away from rescue operations to mount the assault on Warworld. My point was that the most powerful members of the League and the Team should have been assigned to the Warworld assault from the beginning and the less powerful members should have been assigned to rescue ops from the beginning. It's not an either/or choice. They could have done both. But they should have allocated the manpower more appropriately to fit the jobs.

  5. #3905
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalorama View Post
    They do when a mission requires raw power, which is what was needed to take down Mongul. But, as I already indicated, they didn't necessarily need more operatives, just more powerful ones.
    They already put some of their most physically powerful members against Mongul. Superboy and Wonder Girl are physically stronger than any of the remaining 9 Leaguers except for maybe Aquaman, who as we saw was busy saving other people. Arsenal may not be physically strong but his weaponry is extremely powerfully (it was one of the few weapons that could hurt Black Beetle).

    Quote Originally Posted by kalorama View Post
    The destruction of Earth is not a "bigger house fire." It's . . . the destruction of Earth. There is no more important job. That being said, you're putting a self-serving spin on my words that is irrelevant to my point. They didn't have to pull Aquaman or anyone else away from rescue operations to mount the assault on Warworld. My point was that the most powerful members of the League and the Team should have been assigned to the Warworld assault from the beginning and the less powerful members should have been assigned to rescue ops from the beginning. It's not an either/or choice. They could have done both. But they should have allocated the manpower more appropriately to fit the jobs.
    My point was that the Leaguers likely were unable to be assigned to anything from the beginning because they were likely already saving people from disasters before the away team was even formed. And the analogy still stands.

  6. #3906
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theozilla View Post
    They already put some of their most physically powerful members against Mongul. Superboy and Wonder Girl are physically stronger than any of the remaining 9 Leaguers except for maybe Aquaman, who as we saw was busy saving other people. Arsenal may not be physically strong but his weaponry is extremely powerfully (it was one of the few weapons that could hurt Black Beetle).
    For a little bit. Then he was busy standing around doing nothing while Nightwing coordinated the Team and the League.

  7. #3907
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    Quote Originally Posted by suss2it View Post
    For a little bit. Then he was busy standing around doing nothing while Nightwing coordinated the Team and the League.
    Yeah that was near the end after their mode of space transport had already left.

  8. #3908

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    Why do flying drones need to ride a tram?
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  9. #3909
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theozilla View Post
    They already put some of their most physically powerful members against Mongul. Superboy and Wonder Girl are physically stronger than any of the remaining 9 Leaguers except for maybe Aquaman, who as we saw was busy saving other people. Arsenal may not be physically strong but his weaponry is extremely powerfully (it was one of the few weapons that could hurt Black Beetle).
    (A) All those other people Aquaman was busy saving would have all been dead anyway if they didn't stop Mongul (B) The first we saw of Aquaman helping refuges was after the League's long-range scanners detected it and after Green Beetle explained what it was and what was going to happen when it got here. Which means the League knew that Warworld was coming and what it was well before it got close enough to wreak real havok on Earth's tides. That being the case (and this has been my point all along) it made no sense to assign the most powerful remaining Leaguers on Earth (Aquaman, Red Tornado, Zatanna, Black Canary) to rescue operations while sending relative lightweights like Guardian and Arsenal to Warworld. That's bad operational planning and both Nightwing and Captain Atom should have known better. (C) Arsenal's weapons did a grand total of jack against Mongul.


    Quote Originally Posted by Theozilla View Post
    My point was that the Leaguers likely were unable to be assigned to anything from the beginning because they were likely already saving people from disasters before the away team was even formed. And the analogy still stands.
    No it doesn't, because, as explained above, the actual events shown directly dispute it.

  10. #3910
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    Your timing stinks, Mal. But things actually worked out better for him and Karen than I expected, so...can't complain. Guardian just needs to get his head in the game when he's on missions. Even Arsenal's more focused than him, and he's a few arrows short of a quiver.

    Mongul was cool, always great to hear Keith David, and the fights were impressive. Heck, the whole thing looked great, feels like it's been a while since we've seen a large scale battle like this. And that ending...wow! Can't wait to see what happens next.

  11. #3911
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalorama View Post
    (A) All those other people Aquaman was busy saving would have all been dead anyway if they didn't stop Mongul (B) The first we saw of Aquaman helping refuges was after the League's long-range scanners detected it and after Green Beetle explained what it was and what was going to happen when it got here. Which means the League knew that Warworld was coming and what it was well before it got close enough to wreak real havok on Earth's tides. That being the case (and this has been my point all along) it made no sense to assign the most powerful remaining Leaguers on Earth (Aquaman, Red Tornado, Zatanna, Black Canary) to rescue operations while sending relative lightweights like Guardian and Arsenal to Warworld. That's bad operational planning and both Nightwing and Captain Atom should have known better. (C) Arsenal's weapons did a grand total of jack against Mongul.
    Okay, just rewatched the episode you are right that they detected War World before other Leaguers began rescue operations. Either way the Nightwing and Captain Atom felt that the other Leaguers were better used saving people on Earth and that the Team would be more effective on Warworld; and saving people on Earth is still considered a priority because their superheroes they are not going to completely abandon people who are in immediate dire straights. Also not sending everyone allows for there to be back up reserves.
    Arsenal is still not a lightweight damage wise his weaponry is proven to be extremely powerful. Also it is possible that Bioship had limit on the amount of people that could carry to Warworld. Also the Team is trained to specialize in infiltration while Leaguers are likely more effective on mass life saving.

    And the meta reason still stands since the show is about the young heroes not the Leaguers. It is why Batman doesn't assign all the Team missions to himself even though he most likely better at stealth than young heroes are.

  12. #3912
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnorok64 View Post
    Why do flying drones need to ride a tram?
    Energy conservation. Mongul is trying to be green!

  13. #3913
    Viva la Cyclops Red Lotus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalorama View Post
    Which was, of course, exactly what The Light had planned.
    I dont think they planned for them to get the key thing. But they did want to destroy some of their fleet. At this point I think the light is working against them to set up their own plan where at the end they are going to be the ones who help the league save the earth.
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  14. #3914
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Lotus View Post
    I dont think they planned for them to get the key thing. But they did want to destroy some of their fleet.
    Destroying part of the Reach's fleet was only part of their goal. The other one was to reveal the presence of the fleet to the rest of the Earth, and start to turn the tide of public opinion against the Reach.

  15. #3915

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    So what's their end game of bringing the Reach to Earth, then secretly working against them I wonder? Thus far, aside from one group of abducted and now super powered kids, what has the Light gained? Galactic domination could be their aim, but that seems a bit beyond them at this point.
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