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Thread: Young Justice

  1. #2446
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalorama View Post
    All of that presumes that Rann is in a sector of space patrolled by the Lantern Corps. We don't know that to be the case. And even if it were, we don't know that he actually "attacked" anyone or anything. He did something to piss off the Rannians, but it could have been any number of things. We don't know what, exactly, the Leaguers did so there's no way to draw any definitive conclusions about what the magnitude of the fallout from it would be. And it's not like the GLs are neighborhood beat cops who know the names of all the store owners on their block. A GL sector can span multiple planets spread out over light years of space. It's entirely conceivable that a GL assigned to a particular sector might go years without visiting an individual planet in his sector, if nothing ever happens there that requires their specific attention. So even if Rann is in GL space, how would the Rannians contact the Corps to tell them about what John did? Is there a GL 911? Because in the comics they pretty much only show up when global disaster is imminent, not in response to individual calls.
    GLs patrol the entire known universe. Rann is in sector 2682.

    Also power rings are powered by the CPB, if GL rings are used in contravention of Guardian rules, the ring is meant to not allow that automatically and to send the Lantern to Oa for judgment and then power down. So realistically the Guardians should have done something even if the League didn't, a rogue GL is a lot more of a problem for them than it is the JL. That the Guardians for five years didn't intervene to reprimand him or investigate the incident even if it involved brainwashing seems dubious, especially since the ring should have not worked against innocent non hostiles and really should have flagged up on Oa when John left his own sector. At the very least if his will was so easily subverted to allow him to be brainwashed, the Guardians should have took the ring off him and mentally reconditioned him or put him on a trial period.

  2. #2447
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    Speak for yourself.
    I was referring to Legato actually since he couldn't recall Waller. So... yeah, this whole statement made no sense since I didn't suggest it was me.

  3. #2448
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superbeast View Post
    GLs patrol the entire known universe. Rann is in sector 2682.

    Also power rings are powered by the CPB, if GL rings are used in contravention of Guardian rules, the ring is meant to not allow that automatically and to send the Lantern to Oa for judgment and then power down. So realistically the Guardians should have done something even if the League didn't, a rogue GL is a lot more of a problem for them than it is the JL. That the Guardians for five years didn't intervene to reprimand him or investigate the incident even if it involved brainwashing seems dubious, especially since the ring should have not worked against innocent non hostiles and really should have flagged up on Oa when John left his own sector. At the very least if his will was so easily subverted to allow him to be brainwashed, the Guardians should have took the ring off him and mentally reconditioned him or put him on a trial period.
    Do we know they patrol the entire known universe in this show? They certainly don't in the GL cartoon so I wouldn't assume they do in Young Justice either. And again, we don't know what they did on Rann, there's nothing to say he was attacking innocents, or that the rings work that way at all on the show. Personally my bet is that they stole Rann technology and that's why they're wanted criminals but the fact is we just don't know.

  4. #2449
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superbeast View Post
    GLs patrol the entire known universe.
    That's not even true in the comics. There are sectors of space where there are no GLs (or at least none regularly assigned to patrol).


    Quote Originally Posted by Superbeast View Post
    Rann is in sector 2682.
    True in the comics, not necessarily true on the TV show.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superbeast View Post
    Also power rings are powered by the CPB, if GL rings are used in contravention of Guardian rules, the ring is meant to not allow that automatically and to send the Lantern to Oa for judgment and then power down. So realistically the Guardians should have done something even if the League didn't, a rogue GL is a lot more of a problem for them than it is the JL. That the Guardians for five years didn't intervene to reprimand him or investigate the incident even if it involved brainwashing seems dubious, especially since the ring should have not worked against innocent non hostiles and really should have flagged up on Oa when John left his own sector. At the very least if his will was so easily subverted to allow him to be brainwashed, the Guardians should have took the ring off him and mentally reconditioned him or put him on a trial period.
    Which presumes any number of things they may not be true on YJ, including that whatever Stewart did was in contravention of "Guardian rules." The Lanterns have frequently (in the comics) been shown doing all other kinds of questionable things with them (including fighting other Lanterns and Guardians) without them shutting down. The rings themselves have no moral compass and the Guardians give the Lanterns extreme flexibility to act as they see fit. In fact, that flexibility and freedom of thought and decision making is the primary reason why the Corps was created to replace the Manhunter robots. If the Guardians programmed the ring with a long list of stuff that they couldn't do, it would defeat the whole point of recruiting living beings with free will and moral judgment to serve as GLs. As long as Stewart wasn't engaging in mass genocide on Rann (because one of the few things that the rings are explicitly programmed against is the use of lethal force, and even that can be overridden), he could have done any number of things with the ring (including espionage, theft, kidnapping, etc.) that would have pissed the Rannians off without it shutting down. Hell, Sinestro conquered an entire planet and set himself up as dictator, without his ring shutting down or the Guardians stepping in.
    Last edited by kalorama; 04-30-2012 at 08:58 AM.

  5. #2450
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalorama View Post
    That's not even true in the comics. There are sectors of space where there are no GLs (or at least none regularly assigned to patrol).




    True in the comics, not necessarily true on the TV show.



    Which presumes any number of things they may not be true on YJ, including that whatever Stewart did was in contravention of "Guardian rules." The Lanterns have frequently (in the comics) been shown doing all other kinds of questionable things with them (including fighting other Lanterns and Guardians) without them shutting down. The rings themselves have no moral compass and the Guardians give the Lanterns extreme flexibility to act as they see fit. In fact, that flexibility and freedom of thought and decision making is the primary reason why the Corps was created to replace the Manhunter robots. If the Guardians programmed the ring with a long list of stuff that they couldn't do, it would defeat the whole point of recruiting living beings with free will and moral judgment to serve as GLs. As long as Stewart wasn't engaging in mass genocide on Rann (because one of the few things that the rings are explicitly programmed against is the use of lethal force, and even that can be overridden), he could have done any number of things with the ring (including espionage, theft, kidnapping, etc.) that would have pissed the Rannians off without it shutting down. Hell, Sinestro conquered an entire planet and set himself up as dictator, without his ring shutting down or the Guardians stepping in.
    GLs patrol everywhere except the Vega system due to the treaty with the Spider Guild.

    Recently John Stewart had to snap another Lantern's neck because he couldn't use lethal force via the ring on a Corpsmen.

    John Stewart in another sector alone should have caught the Guardians attention and they should have sent that sector's GLs there to check out what was up. The rings might not have moral compasses but they have limitations to prevent them being used for the wrong reasons. They have built in safety features unless extraordinary willpower is exerted to override them. This is like a cop riding out of his jurisdiction and waving his gun around intimidating other people and not receving any disciplinary notices or being suspended for acting above their appointed station in a different area.

    Also Sinestro was in charge of his own sector, of course he didn't report his own deeds because he thought he was doing the right thing, it was only when other GLs checked in he got punished and stripped of his status. So this doesn't really apply, bad cops don't rat themselves out to get punished.


    The Lanterns of the sector of space Rann is in should have been made aware when a GL entered their sector and went to assist him or ask what he was doing in their area without authorisation and without informing them.

    As for them not patrolling the known universe in the GL CGI cartoon, that's pretty clearly it's own thing and barely acknowledges the comics rules whereas YJ has a tie in comic set in the same continuity that shows a lot of old DCU stuff still applies in YJ continuity, particularly the parts directly lifted from the DCU Young Justice comic like Harm and Secret. At least they have indicated those similarities when none have been implied in the GL CGI cartoon.
    Last edited by Superbeast; 04-30-2012 at 09:40 AM.

  6. #2451
    Best In The World Legato's Avatar
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    What does any of this have to do with Young Justice?
    "It isn't jumping the shark if you never come back down." Chuck

  7. #2452
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superbeast View Post
    GLs patrol everywhere except the Vega system due to the treaty with the Spider Guild.

    Recently John Stewart had to snap another Lantern's neck because he couldn't use lethal force via the ring on a Corpsmen.

    John Stewart in another sector alone should have caught the Guardians attention and they should have sent that sector's GLs there to check out what was up. The rings might not have moral compasses but they have limitations to prevent them being used for the wrong reasons. They have built in safety features unless extraordinary willpower is exerted to override them. This is like a cop riding out of his jurisdiction and waving his gun around intimidating other people and not receving any disciplinary notices or being suspended for acting above their appointed station in a different area.

    Also Sinestro was in charge of his own sector, of course he didn't report his own deeds because he thought he was doing the right thing, it was only when other GLs checked in he got punished and stripped of his status. So this doesn't really apply, bad cops don't rat themselves out to get punished.


    The Lanterns of the sector of space Rann is in should have been made aware when a GL entered their sector and went to assist him or ask what he was doing in their area without authorisation and without informing them.

    As for them not patrolling the known universe in the GL CGI cartoon, that's pretty clearly it's own thing and barely acknowledges the comics rules whereas YJ has a tie in comic set in the same continuity that shows a lot of old DCU stuff still applies in YJ continuity, particularly the parts directly lifted from the DCU Young Justice comic like Harm and Secret. At least they have indicated those similarities when none have been implied in the GL CGI cartoon.
    Well obviously Weisman and Vietti are writing a universe where the Green Lantern Corps and the Guardians of the Universe are not as nearly as omnipotent are they are in the comics. There is likely not as much built in safety and trigger features in the ring. Like people said there is not really a Green Lantern 911 and considering how often Hal, John, Guy, and Kyle focus on Earth in the comics and don't pay much attention to other planets in their sector, it is entirely possible that the Green Lantern of Sector 2682 does not pay that much attention to Rann.

  8. #2453
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superbeast View Post
    GLs patrol everywhere except the Vega system due to the treaty with the Spider Guild.

    Recently John Stewart had to snap another Lantern's neck because he couldn't use lethal force via the ring on a Corpsmen.

    John Stewart in another sector alone should have caught the Guardians attention and they should have sent that sector's GLs there to check out what was up. The rings might not have moral compasses but they have limitations to prevent them being used for the wrong reasons. They have built in safety features unless extraordinary willpower is exerted to override them. This is like a cop riding out of his jurisdiction and waving his gun around intimidating other people and not receving any disciplinary notices or being suspended for acting above their appointed station in a different area.

    Also Sinestro was in charge of his own sector, of course he didn't report his own deeds because he thought he was doing the right thing, it was only when other GLs checked in he got punished and stripped of his status. So this doesn't really apply, bad cops don't rat themselves out to get punished.


    The Lanterns of the sector of space Rann is in should have been made aware when a GL entered their sector and went to assist him or ask what he was doing in their area without authorisation and without informing them.

    As for them not patrolling the known universe in the GL CGI cartoon, that's pretty clearly it's own thing and barely acknowledges the comics rules whereas YJ has a tie in comic set in the same continuity that shows a lot of old DCU stuff still applies in YJ continuity, particularly the parts directly lifted from the DCU Young Justice comic like Harm and Secret. At least they have indicated those similarities when none have been implied in the GL CGI cartoon.
    Young Justice is very much its own thing in the same way the GL cartoon is. The creators cherry pick elements from the DCU but they augment them to fit their own ideas, so just because it happens a certain way in the comics doesn't mean it's the same in the show.

  9. #2454
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legato View Post
    What does any of this have to do with Young Justice?
    Nothing. That's pretty much the point.

  10. #2455
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalorama View Post
    Nothing. That's pretty much the point.
    So it's agreed that the discussion is pointless? Since it has no relation to the show whatsoever
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  11. #2456
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legato View Post
    So it's agreed that the discussion is pointless? Since it has no relation to the show whatsoever
    No more pointless than any of the other pointless discussion that go on around here. And the discussion itself does have a relation to the show, in that we're discussing to what degree, if any, certain elements represent gaping plot holes. The part that has nothing to do with YJ are Superbeast's arguments in support of his position, since all of his arguments presume that the show follows pretty much the exact same rules as the comics.


    Quote Originally Posted by Superbeast View Post
    GLs patrol everywhere except the Vega system due to the treaty with the Spider Guild.
    Which means that they aren't actually everywhere, which was exactly my point.

    Recently John Stewart had to snap another Lantern's neck because he couldn't use lethal force via the ring on a Corpsmen.
    Again, making my point for me. Aside from lethal force, there's really no other proven circumstance under which the ring shuts down, so your argument that it should have prevented Stewart from doing whatever he did is moot unless he tried to kill someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superbeast View Post
    John Stewart in another sector alone should have caught the Guardians attention and they should have sent that sector's GLs there to check out what was up. The rings might not have moral compasses but they have limitations to prevent them being used for the wrong reasons. They have built in safety features unless extraordinary willpower is exerted to override them. This is like a cop riding out of his jurisdiction and waving his gun around intimidating other people and not receving any disciplinary notices or being suspended for acting above their appointed station in a different area.
    GLs journey to places outside their sectors all the time without it raising eyebrows among the Guardians. They routinely go into other space sectors on missions with the JLA, for example, without a little blue man popping up to ask for their papers. And, on a related note, Stewart wasn't "alone," he was with 5 other League members. And you have zero evidence to suggest that whatever Stewart did is equivalent to "waving his gun around intimidating other people" because, again, we have no idea what he actually did. That notwithstanding, cops ride into places outside their patrol areas all the time without it being noticed. And, hate to break it to you, cops also get away with intimidating people and committing other illegal acts without punishment, because the people they commit them against are either afraid to report it (that's how intimidation works) or aren't believed if they do report it. However you cut it, there a multitude of reasons why Stewart's actions on Rann (whatever they were) went unnoticed by the Guardians.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superbeast View Post
    Also Sinestro was in charge of his own sector, of course he didn't report his own deeds because he thought he was doing the right thing, it was only when other GLs checked in he got punished and stripped of his status. So this doesn't really apply, bad cops don't rat themselves out to get punished.
    Jesus, talk about moving the goalposts.

    According to you, the ring is programmed to shut down and return to Oa if the bearer uses it to do anything that contradicts the Guardians rules. If conquering an entire planet and setting himself up as a ruthless dictator wasn't enough of a violation to shut down Sinestro's ring or trigger the Guardians warning bells, then the odds of Stewart doing something that would seem to be pretty remote (assuming the same comic rules apply to the TV show).


    Quote Originally Posted by Superbeast View Post
    The Lanterns of the sector of space Rann is in should have been made aware when a GL entered their sector and went to assist him or ask what he was doing in their area without authorisation and without informing them.
    And, again, there are countless instances in the comics of Lanterns entering another Lantern's sector without it triggering any kind of alarm or notice. So on what basis are you assuming that it has to happen on YJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Superbeast View Post
    As for them not patrolling the known universe in the GL CGI cartoon, that's pretty clearly it's own thing and barely acknowledges the comics rules whereas YJ has a tie in comic set in the same continuity that shows a lot of old DCU stuff still applies in YJ continuity, particularly the parts directly lifted from the DCU Young Justice comic like Harm and Secret. At least they have indicated those similarities when none have been implied in the GL CGI cartoon.
    YJ is no less "it's own thing" than JL, JLU, or B:TAS. All of them drew on standard continuity, but altered and shaped it to fit their own needs. There's certainly nothing to suggest that YJ is somehow inexorably bound by the rules of the comic (and many, many examples that clearly show it isn't). But even if it were, none of your comic-based arguments, in and of themselves, do anything to advance your point, because as portrayed in the comics, he could have easily gotten away with whatever it was without attracting attention from the Guardians or other Lanterns.
    Last edited by kalorama; 04-30-2012 at 11:14 AM.

  12. #2457
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalorama View Post
    No more pointless than any of the other pointless discussion that go on around here. And the discussion itself does have a relation to the show, in that we're discussing to what degree, if any, certain elements represent gaping plot holes. The part that has nothing to do with YJ are Superbeast's arguments in support of his position, since all of his arguments presume that the show follows pretty much the exact same rules as the comics.
    I was intrigued on the debate if The Justice League and Young Justice were doing their jobs when it came to locating Roy, depending if Roy is still missing for five years. Which evolved into Green Lantern's limitations to patrolling the universe and to some slight mention of the Green Lantern show for some reason
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    Interesting tidbit of information from the Young Justice wiki, apparently Superboy is not frozen-in-aging like some people assumed, he is physiologically 21 in Season 2. Guess he was already mostly matured in Season 1.
    Source: http://youngjustice.wikia.com/wiki/Superboy

  14. #2459
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theozilla View Post
    Interesting tidbit of information from the Young Justice wiki, apparently Superboy is not frozen-in-aging like some people assumed, he is physiologically 21 in Season 2. Guess he was already mostly matured in Season 1.
    Source: http://youngjustice.wikia.com/wiki/Superboy
    He did look a bit older to me.
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    I dunno if this has been mentioned (because this is a very long thread and I haven't read it all), but I'm wondering if the missing members (Kid Flash, Artemis, and Aqualad) are off helping Red Arrow search for Roy.

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