Marvel vs Capcom 3

[Knight Lancer]

Morrigan is definitely a good character but because she depends on assists to really build meter for herself and do good damage without level 3 hyper or xfactor, i would put her in the B range.

I can honestly say that she is one of the best if not the best runaway character in the game. due to her flight cancel, she doesn't have to be stuck in recovery time. that's a huge plus for her.

unfortunately she's not a very self-sufficient character though. even in astral form it takes a lot of work for her to gain a meter without assists or xfactor yet she depends on meter to kill.

The thing about that is that people are figuring out new things with Morrigan. There are guaranteed TAC setups with Morrigan that will allow her to steal meters without using X-Factor, there are setups with certain assists that allow her to combo into multiple meter-draining fireballs off of just about any hit, on top of that there's still her extremely safe meter-biuilding assist. I think when Morrigan is fully fleshed out, and players really begin to utilize all her tools she'll be incredible. She doesn't have to commit to special moves because of fly cancel, her airdashes are pseudo-safe because of fly cancel, her normals are really fast and good, she has an invincible Hyper that reaches across 80% of the screen and has enough invincibility to beat Bionic Arm clean, she can TAC off a full combo after her Air level 1 Hyper in the corner, she has incredible screen control that'll lead to big damage due to Astral Vision and fireballs, she has an invincible level 3 that you can combo off of, and the way things are headed if Morrigan touches you then you'll have no meter left to work with. In a nutshell, she has the potential to be a character that builds insane meter and takes all of yours in order to fuel incredibly difficult to bypass zoning, which if you get touched by can lead into more meter getting stolen which'll fuel more keepaway. The only reason this stuff isn't being seen often is because this shit actually takes work, knowledge, time, and good execution. Not to mention she kind of had a bad rep in Vanilla MvC3.

Dante isn't really good because his combos are long. If your combos aren't doing 800k at a minimum off of a clean hit, something's wrong. Dante is really good because he builds meter well, has normals that control space really well, has special moves that control space really well, can chase you down anywhere with his teleport, has a double-jump, gets full combos off of every-fucking-thing and a bunch of other shit that I can't even begin to go over because it would take forever to describe why Dante is ridiculous. And yet, Vanilla Dante was far better than Ultimate Dante, which is a really scary thing.

[ceroxide]

Morrigan is definitely a good character but because she depends on assists to really build meter for herself and do good damage without level 3 hyper or xfactor, i would put her in the B range.

I can honestly say that she is one of the best if not the best runaway character in the game. due to her flight cancel, she doesn't have to be stuck in recovery time. that's a huge plus for her.

unfortunately she's not a very self-sufficient character though. even in astral form it takes a lot of work for her to gain a meter without assists or xfactor yet she depends on meter to kill.

Morrigan is an average keep away character, Deadpool, Doom, and Dormamu are the best keep away characters, trust me I cannot tell you how many people rage quit because of trigger happy. Deadpool not only shoots in 3 directions he has double jump, teleport, and a crazy low and extremely fast dash. I love it when people use guys like Hulk, Sentinnel, Nemesis, etc. the big guys I just shoot at them from far away build up some meter hit them again super into trigger happy then cross super into million dollars and go through the whole teleport combo and then end with million dollars and cross super into trigger happy... got off track but yeah Deadpool is the best keep away

[SINNER]

Dante isn't really good because his combos are long. If your combos aren't doing 800k at a minimum off of a clean hit, something's wrong. Dante is really good because he builds meter well, has normals that control space really well, has special moves that control space really well, can chase you down anywhere with his teleport, has a double-jump, gets full combos off of every-fucking-thing and a bunch of other shit that I can't even begin to go over because it would take forever to describe why Dante is ridiculous. And yet, Vanilla Dante was far better than Ultimate Dante, which is a really scary thing.

I can't stand him. all his moves are long-ranged and have instant startup and recovery. he is not easy to get close to without getting punished and even from a distance if you spam projectiles he can just teleport above you and punish that too or spam projectiles of his own. and to kill him you have to do at least 2 good combos that burn meter cuz of his high health. his only con is that he does low damage but with all the tricks he has, he can do reset after reset easier than anybody so that's not even a problem. best spammer in the game.

it seems like people only complain about wesker, but the characters that i think should be nerfed are:

wesker (less health, no glasses)
dante (less health, less speed, less hitstun)
vergil (less health, less priority on moves)
hulk (less health, no instant startup on fullscreen hyper)
ryu (less health)
zero (less health, less hitstun)
hawkeye (less damage on arrows)
doom (less health, hidden missles disappear if hit)
magneto (less damage)
taskmaster (no armor on shield attacks)
wolverine (less health)
dormammu (less health, fireball super can be timed out)

characters that should be buffed:

chris (more speed)
chun-li (more health, more damage)
ksienko (more health, more speed)
phoenix (reg phoenix more health, dark phoenix less health)
shehulk (more speed)
spiderman (more damage)
modok (more health)
thor (more speed)
storm (more damage, faster startups)
ironman (more damage)

[ceroxide]

I can't stand him. all his moves are long-ranged and have instant startup and recovery. he is not easy to get close to without getting punished and even from a distance if you spam projectiles he can just teleport above you and punish that too or spam projectiles of his own. and to kill him you have to do at least 2 good combos that burn meter cuz of his high health. his only con is that he does low damage but with all the tricks he has, he can do reset after reset easier than anybody so that's not even a problem. best spammer in the game.

it seems like people only complain about wesker, but the characters that i think should be nerfed are:

wesker (less health, no glasses)
dante (less health, less speed, less hitstun)
vergil (less health, less priority on moves)
hulk (less health, no instant startup on fullscreen hyper)
ryu (less health)
zero (less health, less hitstun)
hawkeye (less damage on arrows)
doom (less health, hidden missles disappear if hit)
magneto (less damage)
taskmaster (no armor on shield attacks)
wolverine (less health)
dormammu (less health, fireball super can be timed out)

characters that should be buffed:

chris (more speed)
chun-li (more health, more damage)
ksienko (more health, more speed)
phoenix (reg phoenix more health, dark phoenix less health)
shehulk (more speed)
spiderman (more damage)
modok (more health)
thor (more speed)
storm (more damage, faster startups)
ironman (more damage)

out of all of those I would only agree with Thor he's WAY too slow everybody else is good as they are, I would only say give X-23 more health everybody else is well balanced

[SINNER]

out of all of those I would only agree with Thor he's WAY too slow everybody else is good as they are, I would only say give X-23 more health everybody else is well balanced

first of all... LOL

and second, clearly you don't play online or watch tournaments. ur not gonna see chunli, spidey, modok, or ironman at evo. trust me. wesker, magneto, doom, and dante, however, you will.

[ceroxide]

first of all... LOL

and second, clearly you don't play online or watch tournaments. ur not gonna see chunli, spidey, modok, or ironman at evo. trust me. wesker, magneto, doom, and dante, however, you will.

not sure if serious...
dude I'm going to EVO!!! I'm constantly playing online!! just because I'm fine with the current game balancing doesn't mean I don't have an internet connection
I did contradict myself I admit that but I'm not a noob :P

on that note yes most tournaments I've been too Dante, Wesker, Doom, Magneto, and Sentinnel constantly show up, the last tournament I went to, last week to be precise Strider and Vergil were coming up a lot so I'm expecting/hoping this EVO is different from last year

I'm going for SFxT this year but I'll take part in the small UMvC3 tourneys too, and yes I'm a tourney fag >:(

[RLAAMJR.]

not sure if serious...
dude I'm going to EVO!!! I'm constantly playing online!! just because I'm fine with the current game balancing doesn't mean I don't have an internet connection
I did contradict myself I admit that but I'm not a noob :P

on that note yes most tournaments I've been too Dante, Wesker, Doom, Magneto, and Sentinnel constantly show up, the last tournament I went to, last week to be precise Strider and Vergil were coming up a lot so I'm expecting/hoping this EVO is different from last year

I'm going for SFxT this year but I'll take part in the small UMvC3 tourneys too, and yes I'm a tourney fag >:(

why don't the two of you just play online and see who plays better? : )

[Knight Lancer]

Because online is worthless garbage?

SINNER's list.

wesker (less health, no glasses) - Keep health the same, Get rid of glasses, less damage on phantom dance. Nerf X-Factor 3 speed increase. Make it so he's more of a reset character.
dante (less health, less speed, less hitstun) - Build less meter with moves. Dante is designed in such a way that unless you just make all his moves outright useless, he's going to be good.
vergil (less health, less priority on moves) - Move priority can't really be fixed unless you treat swords as extended limbs and give them a hurtbox. Otherwise, Vergil's like Dante, his gameplay is designed in such a way that he's just going to be good, unless you purposefully make his moves shitty.
hulk (less health, no instant startup on fullscreen hyper) - Hulk needs no nerfs. Stop running into S.H all the time. Gamma Tsunami is not instant, stop sucking.
ryu (less health) - No.
zero (less health, less hitstun) - Make canceled Charged Buster a move with normal hitstun properties, not soft knockdown. Keep buster done by itself as soft knockdown. Remove soft knockdown from lightning. Increase minimum damage scaling on hypers (currently 40% minimum damage, nerf to 35 or 30%)
hawkeye (less damage on arrows) - No.
doom (less health, hidden missles disappear if hit) - No.
magneto (less damage) - No.
taskmaster (no armor on shield attacks) - Taskmaster doesn't have armor on Shield Skills, it's just pretty much a clone of Cap's L. Charging Star. That is, a projectile-eating move that has a huge hitbox.
wolverine (less health) - Again, if you can't kill Wolverine in one combo (assuming he's probably taken some projectile chip), you're doing it wrong.
dormammu (less health, fireball super can be timed out) - No.

characters that should be buffed:

chris (more speed) - Needs something to cover the area directly above his head, aka Teleport Central.
chun-li (more health, more damage) - Make Kikouken good somehow, either increase its projectile durability or make it go full-screen with very low recovery, or both, so she can cover her own approach. Make lightning legs scale less in combos. Decrease her minimum damage scaling so her attacks do more damage in long combos. Air Hyper would be greatly appreciated.
Hsien-ko (more health, more speed) - Change gong assist to M. version. Make Senpu Bu cancellable by pressing S during it, grounded version makes her drop straight down while air-version keeps her momentum. Make the bomb projectile its own input with QCF.S. Make it so her "random" items come out in a set pattern. Faster startup/recovery on dash teleport. That + dash cancellable normals would be very interesting for mixups and combo extension, combined with her other tools and proposed buffs.
phoenix (reg phoenix more health, dark phoenix less health) - Health? Really? It doesn't fucking matter how much health DP has because once that pain train starts rolling there's no stopping it. She's not going to be chipped out cause of X-Factor. Phoenix should just stay the same, she has more than enough counter-strategies now.
shehulk (more speed) - Give her back her BS slide.
spiderman (more damage) - you're doing it wrong.
modok (more health) - No.
thor (more speed) - No. Make L. Mighty Strike able to be comboed out of. Mighty Thunder has lower minimum damage scaling, does more damage at the end of a combo.
storm (more damage, faster startups) - More damage, that's it.
ironman (more damage) - Ironman already does good damage. What he needs is a less shitty airdash. Increase hitstun on smart bombs.

LMHS MMHS OTG Hyper is not it folks.

[ceroxide]

Because online is worthless garbage?

online's pretty good actually and I'd love a challenge its just at the time I'm full on SFxT not to mention now Dante sucks and I'm looking to replace him, probably going with Nova
so Deadpool, Nova, and Strider is my new team :(

did anybody else change their teams after Monday's patch?

I'm seeing a lot of X-23 and Phoenix players, kinda cool to see the underused characters getting so much attention now

[SINNER]

did anybody else change their teams after Monday's patch?

huh? i don't recall a new patch since the one that fixed the free costumes glitch.

[SINNER]

@ knight

"Hulk needs no nerfs. Stop running into S.H all the time. Gamma Tsunami is not instant, stop sucking."

Tsunami is a level 1 hyper that does almost 400k, is fully invulnerable, and DOES have instant startup because he can counter any other hyper with it. i use phoenix and morrigan. they both have instant hypers that can counter other ones. they never win against hulk's. to make it fair i say either make that a level 3 hyper with more damage or remove the instant startup so he can't counter any other hyper with it.

"magneto (less damage) - No."

can i get your reasoning for that? he is a normal-sized med-low health character with high mobility. is it fair that he can do 500k without burning meter while other 850k health characters can't? he is too small, too fast, and health is not low enough to warrant that.

"if you can't kill Wolverine in one combo (assuming he's probably taken some projectile chip), you're doing it wrong."

lol so you believe doing a 950k damage combo is standard for most characters?

"Health? Really? It doesn't fucking matter how much health DP has because once that pain train starts rolling there's no stopping it."

exactly. that's the problem with phoenix. she is too dependent on dark phoenix. and health is the reason why. she needs a full gauge to get her full health of 750k. and since health is not an issue for dp as you've already established, why not give reg phoenix 500k so at least she can be usable without 5 bars like a normal character and give the rest of the 750k (250k) to dp? that way reg phnx can stay alive using Healing Field as an alternative. really, phoenix has got to be the wierdest character in mvc history. who else needs a full gauge from the start of the match? that's bullshit. i've spoken to many jean fans and lots of them say they don't use phnx cuz of her need for 5 bars, it takes long to get, and their other characters can't use hypers or xfactor cuz she hogs everything to stay alive. someone should fix that. make dark phoenix rising just another hyper combo that can be used or not instead of being the whole point of the character.

"storm - more damage, that's it."

right, because it makes sense to have a move that gives opponents a free hit, right? cuz that's what Typhoon does. startup that slow that leaves you opened for so long should be warranted by a move that is amazingly useful and damaging. typhoon... is not. and she has a low number of moves so it's not like she has a lot that makes up for it. sub-zero and scorpion have moves that disable the enemy. storm has a move that disables herself. *brainfuck*

[KCJ506]

I really hate how much priority Gamma Crush has. Hulk is invincible for the entire move and it goes through just about anything. I could be blocking waiting to punish and as soon as I press a button.

"HULK STOP YOU! GAMMA CRUSH!"

As for nerfs, I would either make Wesker's execution harder or give him Strider/Zero/Akuma health.

As for buffs, I would make She-Hulk back to the way she was in Vanilla and make bad evidence less likely to show up for Phoenix Wright. I'm sick of getting the same bad pieces of evidence three or four times in a row.

zero (less health

Zero's health is already pretty low. That's pretty much a trade-off for having good tools.

[Havok83]

online's pretty good actually and I'd love a challenge its just at the time I'm full on SFxT not to mention now Dante sucks and I'm looking to replace him, probably going with Nova
so Deadpool, Nova, and Strider is my new team :(

did anybody else change their teams after Monday's patch?

I'm seeing a lot of X-23 and Phoenix players, kinda cool to see the underused characters getting so much attention now

there was a patch? What did it do?

[RLAAMJR.]

@ knight

"Hulk needs no nerfs. Stop running into S.H all the time. Gamma Tsunami is not instant, stop sucking."

Tsunami is a level 1 hyper that does almost 400k, is fully invulnerable, and DOES have instant startup because he can counter any other hyper with it. i use phoenix and morrigan. they both have instant hypers that can counter other ones. they never win against hulk's. to make it fair i say either make that a level 3 hyper with more damage or remove the instant startup so he can't counter any other hyper with it.

"magneto (less damage) - No."

can i get your reasoning for that? he is a normal-sized med-low health character with high mobility. is it fair that he can do 500k without burning meter while other 850k health characters can't? he is too small, too fast, and health is not low enough to warrant that.

"if you can't kill Wolverine in one combo (assuming he's probably taken some projectile chip), you're doing it wrong."

lol so you believe doing a 950k damage combo is standard for most characters?

"Health? Really? It doesn't fucking matter how much health DP has because once that pain train starts rolling there's no stopping it."

exactly. that's the problem with phoenix. she is too dependent on dark phoenix. and health is the reason why. she needs a full gauge to get her full health of 750k. and since health is not an issue for dp as you've already established, why not give reg phoenix 500k so at least she can be usable without 5 bars like a normal character and give the rest of the 750k (250k) to dp? that way reg phnx can stay alive using Healing Field as an alternative. really, phoenix has got to be the wierdest character in mvc history. who else needs a full gauge from the start of the match? that's bullshit. i've spoken to many jean fans and lots of them say they don't use phnx cuz of her need for 5 bars, it takes long to get, and their other characters can't use hypers or xfactor cuz she hogs everything to stay alive. someone should fix that. make dark phoenix rising just another hyper combo that can be used or not instead of being the whole point of the character.

"storm - more damage, that's it."

right, because it makes sense to have a move that gives opponents a free hit, right? cuz that's what Typhoon does. startup that slow that leaves you opened for so long should be warranted by a move that is amazingly useful and damaging. typhoon... is not. and she has a low number of moves so it's not like she has a lot that makes up for it. sub-zero and scorpion have moves that disable the enemy. storm has a move that disables herself. *brainfuck*

you said it absolutely right about Storm's typhoon.


But i'd rather we get a faster start-up of her typhoon than more damage. and Storm should be able to move as her foul wind and fair wind moves are used because what also happens when you use them, especially foul wind, you'll end up open to the opponents attacks.

[ceroxide]

there was a patch? What did it do?

I don't know if it was last Monday or not, that's just when I noticed it
anyways Dante now can't connect his shots on the floor with a combo, he can still do it but you need an insanely good timing to do, so you might as well forget its there. He also can't connect his stinger bee from a ground bounce and a bunch of other small changes, you really wouldn't notice them unless you main the characters that were changed

X-23 and Felicia from what I hear as well