Okay, grammar nerds, I have a question for you.

[Justin D.]

Would you put punctuation on the inside or outside of quotation marks when not quoting what someone says?

For example, would you say:

I told him the car was "candy apple red."

or

I told him the car was "candy apple red".


Take the exit marked "First Street," and then turn left.

or

Take the exit marked "First Street", and then turn left.

This is a bone of contention between some writers and editors here at work. I state that the punctuation goes outside the quotation marks in these examples, but others say it doesn't. Their reasoning for this is because it's the rule laid down by both the Chicago Manual and AP Style Guide. These rule books may tell you the rule for this one, but they don't explain it other than saying it's tradition. If we have a logical reasoning for doing it differently, which we do, then I'd rather rule in the favor of logic than tradition just for tradition's sake.

Thoughts?

[jesse_custer]

Either way, you're going by tradition. I prefer periods and commas inside quotation marks, but I prefer colons and semicolons outside quotation marks. If tradition looks better and pleases the crowd, I don't see the problem, so I do that. This isn't a definite or philosophical point, though.

[TwinPistols]

I wouldn't call myself a "grammar nerd", though I read and write a lot, and I have a good sense of the language. That sense is now telling me, that punctuation goes outside of the quotation marks. IIRC, it has in everything I've read.

-Pistols

[jesse_custer]

Also, I didn't specify this point, but periods and commas inside quotation marks is an American tradition. The other way is an English tradition. Regardless, consistency is the most important factor here.

[Justin D.]

Either way, you're going by tradition. I prefer periods and commas inside quotation marks, but I prefer colons and semicolons outside quotation marks. If tradition looks better and pleases the crowd, I don't see the problem, so I do that. This isn't a definite or philosophical point, though.

It is when setting standards for what a company uses going forward though.

Putting the punctuation outside the quotation marks may be traditional in some places (not in most U.S. places though), but it also uses logic. Whereas putting it inside only uses tradition and has no logic.

[Dreadstar]

I've always been taught (rigidly, in fact) that common punctuation goes within the quotation marks. Common punctuation being periods, commas, exclamation points, and question marks.

[jesse_custer]

It sounds like you and the other writers/editors are going to have a long discussion on this subject.

By the way, I know this will probably register as editorial nitpicking, but here's how I would write the two examples you gave:

I told him the car was candy apple red.

Take the First Street exit and turn left.

[thespianphryne]

In AP style and in MLA style, the recommendation is for the punctuation to fall within the quotation marks - these are both America styles (AmE).

In the British style (BrE), the norm is for punctuation to follow logical placement.

Just find out what the house style is and follow that.

[Tom]

I don't understand. What's logical about putting them outside the quotation?

And to be honest, I think you're wrong here. I mean, it's inarguable that you're grammatically wrong; you're also wrong for thinking you can make up your own grammar rules based on logic. The fact of the matter is, you might think it makes sense, but everyone else not in your head is merely going to think you made a grammatical error.

[JeffreyWKramer]

The guidelines I worked under when doing editing for textbook and university presses was that the punctuation goes inside the quotation marks. The only example I can recall to the contrary would be if you have quotation marks immediately preceeding a colon or semicolon; those go outside the quotation marks, as they serve to separate points, rather than end them, as is the case with commas, periods and so forth.

[Agent Helix]

Either way is correct and acceptable. "Logic" has nothing to do with it. It's grammar.

[Justin D.]

It sounds like you and the other writers/editors are going to have a long discussion on this subject.

The truly annoying part is that we already had one!

Now, the copyeditors are saying different and one of the writers who disagreed with me before is offering up links to prove her right about punctuation going outside quotation marks. All her links lead to people saying "it's always been this way", but with no reason other than printing methods in the late 1800s/early 1900s.

By the way, I know this will probably register as editorial nitpicking, but here's how I would write the two examples you gave:

I told him the car was candy apple red.

Take the First Street exit and turn left.

I'd write the second sentence the same for efficiency purposes, but for example purposes I had to use the word marked and write it the way I did.

[jesse_custer]

Justin, that is a tough situation. Perhaps Vampire Weekend has a point:

Who gives a fuck about an Oxford Comma?

Or maybe not ...

[thespianphryne]

Would you put punctuation on the inside or outside of quotation marks when not quoting what someone says?

For example, would you say:

I told him the car was "candy apple red."

or

I told him the car was "candy apple red".


Take the exit marked "First Street," and then turn left.

or

Take the exit marked "First Street", and then turn left.

[...]

Yea, in this case I wouldn't even bother with quotation marks, because in the case of the car, it's not a direct quotation. I would say: I told him the car was candy apple red.

...Unless I were referring to an actual branded colour from a paint company, in which case, I would say: I told him the car was Candy Apple Red.


And in the case of the street, I would say: Take the First Street exit and then turn left.

The capitalisation of "first" and "street" indicates that it is not a generic street but a proper name. Quotations are redundant.


PS: Coke to jesse_custer

[TwinPistols]

And to be honest, I think you're wrong here. I mean, it's inarguable that you're grammatically wrong..

You sure about that?