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  1. #1006
    Senior Member Goldgeller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie_1981 View Post
    From Jurgens run, a nice pic.

    Despite the mediocrity in several of his stories, there are other things that Jurgens did well and when you start to compare runs, Jurgens proves to be a better writer than Fraction throughout the years.
    I think Jurgen's run on Thor was awesome. Amora was a much better character than she was portrayed here. Whatever was going on between Amora and Thor, even if it were out of character, didn't even have any sizzle to it. A lot of people, unless they are pushed to read older Thor issues, like some posters pushed me to, won't even know that she's a quite complex character!

    At least Hela is being used a lot more in the Thor world. I'm happy about that.

  2. #1007
    Senior Member Charlie_1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldgeller View Post
    I think Jurgen's run on Thor was awesome. Amora was a much better character than she was portrayed here. Whatever was going on between Amora and Thor, even if it were out of character, didn't even have any sizzle to it. A lot of people, unless they are pushed to read older Thor issues, like some posters pushed me to, won't even know that she's a quite complex character!

    At least Hela is being used a lot more in the Thor world. I'm happy about that.
    True, Also I think when I read again this Jurgens run from the beginning of his run to the Reigning Storyline it is quite clear that he did a good job in spite of some weird things, though for once it is needed to explaining something of the past of Amora the Enchantress, she is the only important character of Thor books that seems to not have any background story, we know a lot of things about Thor, Sif, Balder, Loki, Odin,Warriors Three, Hela, Brunnhilde the Valkyrie.. I do not understand why the writers of Marvel skips that over and over time and choose to ignore things and they are no more courageous with a character as her.

    Walt Simonson was more courageous and did other things, thanks to him, we knew the true name of the Enchantress and the existence of a younger sister named Lorelei, adding the fact that she isnīt so evil as we believe.

    The Enchantress has always been a very complex character, with many things that make her very special, but what Fraction has done in this story is the worst thing he could do and if there is no writer of Marvel to fix it, the mess will remain there.

    About Hela, is very clear but that we does not owe it to Fraction, we owe more to what JMS and Kieron Gillen did.

  3. #1008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie_1981 View Post
    I know, I love Journey Into Mystery and for me is a mystery when you see the list of sales that is below the Mighty Thor book when clearly it is shown what is a good comic and a bad comic, Journey into Mystery is a great and excellent book, very well written and sometimes well drawn while Mighty Thor, Matt Fraction has been demonstrated with a very clear difference is the worst thing that Marvel is publishing.

    I hate the fact that this current story served no purpose and should begin to be completely forgotten, I have not liked anything to forcing things on this way and that way to treat a character as the Enchantress like this as if she was less than nothing considering how important she is, in the same way as Thor's behavior and personality do not fit anything seen in the past, if Thor is worthy of his hammer it is because he has a noble heart , the best of all the warriors of Asgard, independent, who treats women with respect, even if is his enemy ...

    I know that probably the saga of Everything Burns, is probably more Gillenīs idea than Fraction and I feel in my soul because I like the work of Gillen in everything he did, but after the recent history of Mighty Thor and all seen so far and know that is a crossover between both comics, one I like, I hate the other, I have no interest in seeing anything related to Thor until appears another writer.

    Always I loved Amora the Enchantressīs character, and I was excited to know that for once, Marvel decides to use her, but this storyline was garbage, everything was totally forced and bad written and the portrayal was the worst of all times.

    And to round off the topic, everything starts to point out that the Enchantress it is not going to appear on Thor: The Dark World, demonstrating that to Marvel does not care at all.

    If Marvel listens to the fans, they should do something to fix this mess, a miniseries or a one-shot about the Enchantress, to explain things and fix all this if not, they will demonstrate that they do not care at all and would be better that the Enchantress it is dead. Iīm sorry to say this but It is what I feel.
    Amora is my favorite asgardian as well as possibly overall, but I would not expect one-shot (let alone mini) concerning her. Not because Marvel would hate her, but simply as things are currently very few characters get one-shots. One thing that is disadvantage for her is that she is sorceress which can be problematic as editorial are afraid of magic.

  4. #1009
    Senior Member Charlie_1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atren View Post
    Amora is my favorite asgardian as well as possibly overall, but I would not expect one-shot (let alone mini) concerning her. Not because Marvel would hate her, but simply as things are currently very few characters get one-shots. One thing that is disadvantage for her is that she is sorceress which can be problematic as editorial are afraid of magic.
    I think, they should make any mini, an one-shot or something to clarify all the fuss, back to the old Amora, not this that has nothing to do with we all know.

    I see no disadvantage anywhere, they could make perfectly an Amora the Enchantress miniseries, with a writer who really cares about the characters and a good artist, Marvel has done a Journey Into Mystery comic that was and is a very good book and everything is full of magic, mystery and myth, but unfortunately is very underrated and that is the fault of the readers, possibly also the price of the comic, but all those who have read and continue doing it, they love it and consider it the best of Marvel published in a while.

    It can be done perfectly, but they must show interest and they would risk about it, Amora the Enchantress is a great character that could be much more than just a villain because the writer of the day wants it to be so, not knowing the whole story and in the same way of Thor, being disrespectful and being beating up and defeating with ease and in the most stupid ways as possible, without any kind of development and history.
    Last edited by Charlie_1981; 07-28-2012 at 10:58 AM.

  5. #1010
    Senior Member Charlie_1981's Avatar
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    Another nice pic


  6. #1011
    Radical Chick BooCoo's Avatar
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    After reading Thor#17, I had to revise some ideas I had about the characterizations. True, some of the approach was whack but I'm surprised nobody noticed the disdain of Amora for the All Mothers, and Frigga in particular. And then the line about some gods being "forgotten". Add to the fact Amora ran away from home as a child to be mentored in magic...just saying. There could be a story there. I also have to revise my thinking on how Thor behaved a bit. I'm not crazy about the hair pulling bit at all. However, these are asgardians. This stuff doesn't harm them physically. And Hela had insight when she warned Amora Thor would want to kill her, and dang if he didn't respond in that tone, saying simply he hated her. If someone sliced a portion of me away and made a monster of it, I'd have a problem with that too. As far as Amora's motives go, I don't think it was anything other than "nobody cared to find out about me when the gods returned, so F all 'yall. I'll just mess with you some." And so she did. Being immortals, gods have so much time on their hands they do bizarre and crazy stuff to fight boredom. And Thor was right telling Blake he dosen't live a simple or boring life. The gods by nature are changeable and complex. Enemies, friends, allies, lovers. Incest. Kids with animals and bestial god offspring. So nothing suprises me with their behavior. Its the inconsistency and out of nowhere stuff I have a problem with. Then the all mothers suddenly are awake with no explanation of how, since we don't know what happened at Marelock at that moment. The fight woke them up? Hell if I know.

    Course, girlfriend needs to ease up on the warpaint. Chick puts on makeup with a spatula. Spend a lil' less time posing and admiring yoself. Loose some of the green, too...you don't have to colormatch everything.
    Last edited by BooCoo; 07-28-2012 at 09:04 PM.

  7. #1012
    Senior Member Charlie_1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BooCoo View Post
    After reading Thor#17, I had to revise some ideas I had about the characterizations. True, some of the approach was whack but I'm surprised nobody noticed the disdain of Amora for the All Mothers, and Frigga in particular. And then the line about some gods being "forgotten". Add to the fact Amora ran away from home as a child to be mentored in magic...just saying. There could be a story there. I also have to revise my thinking on how Thor behaved a bit. I'm not crazy about the hair pulling bit at all. However, these are asgardians. This stuff doesn't harm them physically. And Hela had insight when she warned Amora Thor would want to kill her, and dang if he didn't respond in that tone, saying simply he hated her. If someone sliced a portion of me away and made a monster of it, I'd have a problem with that too. As far as Amora's motives go, I don't think it was anything other than "nobody cared to find out about me when the gods returned, so F all 'yall. I'll just mess with you some." And so she did. Being immortals, gods have so much time on their hands they do bizarre and crazy stuff to fight boredom. And Thor was right telling Blake he dosen't live a simple or boring life. The gods by nature are changeable and complex. Enemies, friends, allies, lovers. Incest. Kids with animals and bestial god offspring. So nothing suprises me with their behavior. Its the inconsistency and out of nowhere stuff I have a problem with. Then the all mothers suddenly are awake with no explanation of how, since we don't know what happened at Marelock at that moment. The fight woke them up? Hell if I know.

    Course, girlfriend needs to ease up on the warpaint. Chick puts on makeup with a spatula. Spend a lil' less time posing and admiring yoself. Loose some of the green, too...you don't have to colormatch everything.
    You may be right, but that does not justify absolutely anything that happens in this story like Amora behavior that has nothing to do with that seen in the past, Fraction simply ignores all kinds of characterization and story of the characters and I have lost the patience and interest in this book.

    It is simply absurd and the worst that has been seen in Thor book, I've said all I had to say, and to me, is totally hard to justify because there is no justification in anything that can be read and completely dispensable.

  8. #1013
    Radical Chick BooCoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie_1981 View Post
    You may be right, but that does not justify absolutely anything that happens in this story like Amora behavior that has nothing to do with that seen in the past, Fraction simply ignores all kinds of characterization and story of the characters and I have lost the patience and interest in this book.

    It is simply absurd and the worst that has been seen in Thor book, I've said all I had to say, and to me, is totally hard to justify because there is no justification in anything that can be read and completely dispensable.
    True, its the out of nowhere stuff that makes no sense. What bugs me the most is that Fraction makes the characters do whatever is necessary to advance the plot, even though it isn't characteristic or consistent with ANY continuity at all. For instance, did you see the young Odin depicted as a BRUNETTE. The hell? Odin never had dark hair, he was blonde back in the day. And then Hela waving off Amora and her keep saying "she'd pass through Hel regardless" as if Hela now has no say in who goes through her realm? Dumb, dumb. I'm at the point where nothing surprises me with this crazy series. If Thor shows up as a secret crossdresser, I wouldn't be surprised. And if Bor shows up in an afro, I'm walking.

  9. #1014
    Senior Member Charlie_1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BooCoo View Post
    True, its the out of nowhere stuff that makes no sense. What bugs me the most is that Fraction makes the characters do whatever is necessary to advance the plot, even though it isn't characteristic or consistent with ANY continuity at all. For instance, did you see the young Odin depicted as a BRUNETTE. The hell? Odin never had dark hair, he was blonde back in the day. And then Hela waving off Amora and her keep saying "she'd pass through Hel regardless" as if Hela now has no say in who goes through her realm? Dumb, dumb. I'm at the point where nothing surprises me with this crazy series. If Thor shows up as a secret crossdresser, I wouldn't be surprised. And if Bor shows up in an afro, I'm walking.
    Completely agree, all these Fraction ideas, in the end it leads to nowhere and the book has grown into something completely unrecognizable and about the worst of Marvel currently publishes, with the characters are not adjusting to what they used to be.

    I saw it, and I found a totally stupid thing because it has never been like that, but Fraction those things for what it seems, he does not care, he does what he wants and does not care what the characters are and have been.

    On the Hela thing, exactly the same, something that makes no sense, why Hela will let them pass away? Amora was responsible and did much to defeat Hela alongside with Thor, Captain America and Iron Man in Avengers Prime, Didnīt Hela want Amora dead in this case or raises her fury against her for her defeat?

    Fraction not even have read that story, Bendis had more respect and showed an Enchantress as she was used to be the last years, I really liked this miniseries because of that, she fought against an unsuspecting Thor, beating him at the beginning showing how powerful she is, and right after she saved his life and fought alongside him against Hela.

    I wish Marvel would realize the big mistake here and when the next time they use Amora again (hopefully soon) fix all those things and show the Enchantress as she is (Fraction, better to keep him away from her) and if exist the chance to explain part of her past, better and above all it will be a delightful to return to see Lorelei.

  10. #1015
    Making Mischief The Great Grape's Avatar
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    Having caught up on most of the current run of Mighty Thor, I concur that Amora has definately had better days characterization wise. Her storyline didn't resonate with me or seem to serve a real purpose.

    She didn't seem like the Amora we usually have come to expect. Change can be fine. But this didn't really lead anywhere.
    Last edited by The Great Grape; 07-30-2012 at 12:37 AM.

  11. #1016
    Senior Member Charlie_1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great Grape View Post
    Having caught up on most of the current run of Mighty Thor, I concur that Amora has definately had better days characterization wise. Her storyline didn't resonate with me or seem to serve a real purpose.

    She didn't seem like the Amora we usually have come to expect. Change can be fine. But this didn't really lead anywhere.
    True, it is as if this story would serve no other purpose than to fill a story and little else without worrying about anything else and presenting the characters in the worst way possible without any consequences.

    Change is always good but you have to do well and show interest and love in the characters not in the ego of a writer who does not care about anything.

    There are a lot of very good writers at Marvel, Fraction obviously is not one of them though I liked his Iron Fist and some of the first issues of Iron Man and even his Ages of Thunder, Reign of Blood and Man of War, I do not know if he feels a little limited to write certain things or has the occasional disagreement editorial.

    When is making a story, first of all, you have to look for good ideas, show affection for those characters who you want to use and above all know its history and the time of his/her last appearance and characterization and explaining what happened to him/her, not doing as what happens in this story, to force things and showing hatred for the characters ignoring everything and do a lot of things terribly out of character.

  12. #1017
    Senior Member Charlie_1981's Avatar
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    Nice pics about Amora, Lorelei and Sylvie (I know this was posted some months ago, but this have a different colour and tone than the other)






  13. #1018
    Junior Member Nissus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BooCoo View Post
    For instance, did you see the young Odin depicted as a BRUNETTE. The hell? Odin never had dark hair, he was blonde back in the day.
    Yes, that's weird, a younger Odin was depicted blonde in issue 7.

  14. #1019
    Senior Member Charlie_1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nissus View Post
    Yes, that's weird, a younger Odin was depicted blonde in issue 7.
    Right, now that you say is true, Odin was depicted blonde in that story, possibly BooCoo was confusing Odin with Cul, however, things are still within the entire Fraction run that are nonsense, and I think when was talked about the review of Mighty Thor#7 in its moment, not a long number of people liked it.

    One thing, I'm reading Avengers Academy issues since I saw the answer that Tom Brevoort said to me on his Formspring and I donīt see Sylvie Lushton the teen Enchantress anywhere. I'm beginning to think the answer made by Tom Brevoort at this time, was not true.

  15. #1020
    Senior Member Charlie_1981's Avatar
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    A nice collage of some of good appearances of Amora


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