Amora the Enchantress Appreciation

[Charlie_1981]

First off, Walt's still got it! Awesome cover! And secondly, regardless of the title of this thread, you show that to anyone and they'll know it's the Enchantress, IMO.

More on topic, has it ever been said what happened to Amora during the last Ragnarok cycle (JMS' run)? Seemed everyone got reincarnated as a human, except for Sif and Amora. Sif was accounted for (body taken up by Loki instead), but has anything ever spoke about Amora? They could just use the "she was resurrected with everyone else, but has been laying low" easy way out, as I would guess would fall under any Asgardian we haven't seen in awhile, like Lorelei, but was just curious.

Completely agree, Walt is the king, during the Thor God-Sized (by Matt Fraction) one-shot could have explained it but we did not see anything and then in Avengers Prime, Amora had long seemed to live in Asgard when the Captain America, Iron Man and Thor appeared, but Karnilla that has recently seen in Thor, she has also not seen as human or explained anything.

Lorelei's case is a very significant event as how the Thor writers ignore the characters and always see a number after another the same characters and forgetting about the other characters, I can´t wait to see it and especially with an interesting background story, a character as Lorelei deserves it after decades of being ignored.

[Charlie_1981]

Yes, but she has overtime taken the form of Thor's Catwoman or Black Cat. I admit that making her at least allied with the hero basically removes one third to one quarter of the named female villains in Thor (with a question to add Lorelei, who seems to be a shadow of her sister with the change being a love spell making her fall for Loki and less moral ground then Amora).

I can see Lorelei being brought back if Amora is edge closer to the angel's side, to provide a dark mirror to her. Especially if she was a) still lusting for Loki and b) Loki turns to the dark side again. Turning her into a more malignant version of Amora, if she gets some magic training....

Amora is current in a state where she can switch between positive to negative based on her desires.

Side notes:

Wonder what would happen if Lorelei return with her love for Loki, and given his current state? Plus Thor does need more female villains then Hel, Karnilla, Amora and Lorelei....

I´m agreed with you on that, Thor needs more female villains, but if you see Lorelei, it is as if you are defining Morgan LeFay, if you do that to Lorelei is so, you would have a reason to add, she doesn´t hate Amora an doesn´t try to kill her, she just feel resentment and envy because of certain things about her childhood and what I have read and sensed, it would be an objetive to surpass her older sister one day and proving to be better than her and humilliate her in any thing.

However, considering that 11 years ago in the Defenders book, Lorelei was called The IceQueen, maybe would be nice to explain why she calls herself so, I've never seen that she have powers related to snow or ice, so the main question would be related to personality, a cold woman, distant, independent, strong personality, lonely and a bit ingenuous.

The Loki thing, Lorelei is young but also adult though it's hard to believe, considering how resentful it is, perhaps would make every effort to humiliate the young Loki before realizing that the knowledge he has could be a reason to be in his side becoming almost a mother.

And adding another thing, do not forget Sylvie Lushton, the young sorceress from Broxton supposedly transformed into The second Enchantress by Loki when he was a woman, if the possible return of Lorelei we add that this girl really can be half-human, half-asgardian and that easily could be the lost daughter of Lorelei, things would rise to another level and we would have a few things that would be connected to each other.

[Charlie_1981]

More pics

Amora the Enchantress: An Angel or a Devil

[Charlie_1981]

[Charlie_1981]

[superchick]

Yes, but she has overtime taken the form of Thor's Catwoman or Black Cat. I admit that making her at least allied with the hero basically removes one third to one quarter of the named female villains in Thor (with a question to add Lorelei, who seems to be a shadow of her sister with the change being a love spell making her fall for Loki and less moral ground then Amora).

I can see Lorelei being brought back if Amora is edge closer to the angel's side, to provide a dark mirror to her. Especially if she was a) still lusting for Loki and b) Loki turns to the dark side again. Turning her into a more malignant version of Amora, if she gets some magic training....

Amora is current in a state where she can switch between positive to negative based on her desires.

Side notes:

Wonder what would happen if Lorelei return with her love for Loki, and given his current state? Plus Thor does need more female villains then Hel, Karnilla, Amora and Lorelei....

I think the problem is outlined in this phrase 'Thor's version of...', its been done and its been done in a far more iconic way. Enchantress is too good to just be an archetype to fill out the rogue's gallery. She needs to be Enchantress and I think she can be the greatest villainess in Marvel comics. I think she would be better served by having the shackles of ambiguity taken off her and letting her go all out. She'll never be the greatest hero so why push her in a direction that she wasn't really made for?

Diluted? I rather doubt it, I think it would make things more interesting, the example of Emma Frost is a very significant case, nobody would have imagined that the White Queen of the Hellfire Club could end up becoming a love interest of Scott Summers breaking what had lasted so many years as was his relationship with Jean Grey and also to become one of the most important leaders of the group.

Amora could be a different case, opportunities and stories in this regard could be many and especially not to miss such opportunities, I more than once that I have said many opportunities have been lost for years, the writers always had been able to make good stories of Amora , but the writers have always missed it.

I don't like Emma Frost and Scott/Emma is an abomination. All she does is compromise Scott's character.

[Charlie_1981]

And the last

[Push You Down]

I do really like the return of the Simonson 'fantasy' redesign. It has got to be a pain to draw though.

[Charlie_1981]

I think the problem is outlined in this phrase 'Thor's version of...', its been done and its been done in a far more iconic way. Enchantress is too good to just be an archetype to fill out the rogue's gallery. She needs to be Enchantress and I think she can be the greatest villainess in Marvel comics. I think she would be better served by having the shackles of ambiguity taken off her and letting her go all out. She'll never be the greatest hero so why push her in a direction that she wasn't really made for?

I don't like Emma Frost and Scott/Emma is an abomination. All she does is compromise Scott's character.

That is true, about being the best female villain of Marvel comics is difficult to prove, why do you ask it? Because she was the first villainess of Marvel and clearly moved away from all the stereotypes of female characters created at that time? I see otherwise, it is clear that the Enchantress is and always will be a special character capable of good and evil (the 2 above pictures I've put of an angel and a demon would be the best example of this).

You know it is difficult Amora could be a heroine, but to prove it, nothing would happen, it depends on what the writer can do at that time and if he does well, all those who read these stories even if we think in a way and we have seen the character in a certain way maybe we can accept it or not, if that story is well written and interesting and consistent

In this pic of Tom DeFalco´s run, Amora helps Warriors Three and faces Karnilla proving that she is not interested in the throne of Asgard.



and in that other pic, Amora begins to feel an interest and curiosity in a man as Heimdall (the reaction is what eventually leads to the sacrifice of Skurge the Executioner) interest becoming romantic just when Heimdall helps Amora to overcome her pain.



The Emma Frost´s thing, I put it as an example of what could be done, but I do not think the same way, in a way that could be a heroine or something similar but without losing what makes the character is special and often to cross the line between good and evil, to give the character a lot more complexity and explaining the reasons for it as why she is as she is or why she choose the wrong path.

[Charlie_1981]

More Amora pics

[Charlie_1981]

[Charlie_1981]

An Amora without her tiara

[superchick]

For a start Charlie, her as a heroine would never stick. She's just too good as the villain she was created to be. She'll never match Storm's cache as a hero but she could match her cache as a villain. Granted, she doesn't have much competition there but the ambiguity always seemed to me to be a compromising way of making it acceptable for Thor to date her when everyone in their right mind knows it doesn't work. Its a fantasy of writers and fanboys alike but that doesn't mean it should happen or is in character for either of their stories. (but then I think the only 'goddess' who really works as a love interest to Thor is 616 Valkyrie and even then I'm not that excited about it)

[Charlie_1981]

For a start Charlie, her as a heroine would never stick. She's just too good as the villain she was created to be. She'll never match Storm's cache as a hero but she could match her cache as a villain. Granted, she doesn't have much competition there but the ambiguity always seemed to me to be a compromising way of making it acceptable for Thor to date her when everyone in their right mind knows it doesn't work. Its a fantasy of writers and fanboys alike but that doesn't mean it should happen or is in character for either of their stories. (but then I think the only 'goddess' who really works as a love interest to Thor is 616 Valkyrie and even then I'm not that excited about it)

Perhaps not, and there are things you say in which I can agree, any positive or negative opinion is very respectable, but if it were not for Walt Simonson, perhaps now we would know little of her as the fact of having a sister, her tragic separation from Skurge the Executioner or her real name.

Amora has always been a complex character and would be a complete mistake to drop the ambiguity that surrounds the Enchantress and then, that character would be a one-dimensional and superficial and there is still much to explain it, or rather, we should begin to see a lot about her and her past.

[Charlie_1981]

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