Amora the Enchantress Appreciation

[Kieran_Frost]

Amora is not evil, at least from the Walter Simonson´s run, but Claremont had to ignore it when he made his history of the New Mutants in Asgard.

I would think Amora would be like all Gods... pretty much beyond good and evil. Fickle. Petty. Noble when they want, complete di*ks when they want. Those always make the best Gods, because it means you never know what the character might do next. I agree with Jmacqu1. Gods have the emotional stability of a yo-yo.

Now, seriously, if yer wanna debate about Bendis, do it on another of the numerous threads in this forum with that objective. I already stated that I do not want to talk about it in this thread, it is not the place, why did you not respect my wish?

At what point was I talking about this with you? My comments were to Charlie, NOT you. My comments had nothing to do with you and were not aimed at you. If you don't want to talk about Bendis in this thread, don't jump on other posters comments about Bendis haters that aren't directed at you... but you kind of proved my point, actually. Considering how much you over-reacted in your post, about my comment TO CHARLIE... maybe it turns out you fit the criteria I listed earlier. Maybe you are the very kind of blind Bendis hater I was warning Charlie to take with a grain of salt. Who knows?

You´re right, I really hope to see something good and so, as I said before, I'll give Bendis the benefit of the doubt, I want to be positive and not think that I can find something bad, I just hope, he is aware and respects the Enchantress and not treated her as a sixth category character.

I would still argue you should give MORE than "just" the benefit of the doubt. You should be PRO her appearance under Bendis, until you read it. Anything else is kind of a slap in the face, considering how long you've been demanding her return. If you get what I mean?

P.S. I do not know if you saw what I put on page 2, which would be an evolution of how The Enchantress costume has changed over the years, well, really it hasn't changed much, but I guess that's good, because it is easier identify her without confusion.

Oh I have to agree with the other posters, her look is DEFINITELY one of her best assets. She just looks so awesome, and as you showed in the scans, she's ALWAYS looked awesome.

[Charlie_1981]

I would think Amora would be like all Gods... pretty much beyond good and evil. Fickle. Petty. Noble when they want, complete di*ks when they want. Those always make the best Gods, because it means you never know what the character might do next. I agree with Jmacqu1. Gods have the emotional stability of a yo-yo.

Perhaps you are right, well, I would not make a senseless comparison, but look at Venus (character of Agents of Atlas), she looks so different, so close to humans, so sensible, so good partner and very powerful . Maybe Venus and Amora would be the Day and the Night, although Venus would be all that could be Lorelei (Enchantress sister) if she were not so cold, callous, and arrogant. While, Amora could be very close to being superior to Venus.

At what point was I talking about this with you? My comments were to Charlie, NOT you. My comments had nothing to do with you and were not aimed at you. If you don't want to talk about Bendis in this thread, don't jump on other posters comments about Bendis haters that aren't directed at you... but you kind of proved my point, actually. Considering how much you over-reacted in your post, about my comment TO CHARLIE... maybe it turns out you fit the criteria I listed earlier. Maybe you are the very kind of blind Bendis hater I was warning Charlie to take with a grain of salt. Who knows?

It is better to leave the Bendis theme at the moment, I've understood what you both, guys, wanted to say and doesn't make sense to start a discussion that is meaningless.

I would still argue you should give MORE than "just" the benefit of the doubt. You should be PRO her appearance under Bendis, until you read it. Anything else is kind of a slap in the face, considering how long you've been demanding her return. If you get what I mean?

I know and understand you perfectly, but in another board, I hear what one person told me what Bendis did with Alpha Flight and really I´m started to think the worst, so I'm somewhat confused in that aspect. You're right, I´ll try to think of something more than simply give the benefit of the doubt, but I hope he respects the character.

Oh I have to agree with the other posters, her look is DEFINITELY one of her best assets. She just looks so awesome, and as you showed in the scans, she's ALWAYS looked awesome.

yeah, really is very curious to know that she is one of the comic characters that almost never has changed her costume, simply little variations of the original, to see her in all of her awesomeness and to see how easy is to identify her.

[Finganforn]

At what point was I talking about this with you? My comments were to Charlie, NOT you. My comments had nothing to do with you and were not aimed at you.

You're right at one point, you indeed didn't address the Bendis stuff at me, though it did start after you expanded on my post on a subject that I did state later on that I do not wish to expand on (Bendis depiction of Le Fay or Bendis for the matter), would have been polite to leave me be.

Still, your comment was indeed not directed at me and my bitter joke seems to have annoyed you so much, so for that I apologize. It was not my objective to annoy you, just to use the joke to point out that the discussion on Bendis by himself is entirely out of topic, and that point still stands.

[Kieran_Frost]

Perhaps you are right, well, I would not make a senseless comparison, but look at Venus (character of Agents of Atlas), she looks so different, so close to humans, so sensible, so good partner and very powerful . Maybe Venus and Amora would be the Day and the Night, although Venus would be all that could be Lorelei (Enchantress sister) if she were not so cold, callous, and arrogant. While, Amora could be very close to being superior to Venus.

Ah, but "Venus" isn't ACTUALLY a goddess (not the one you are referencing). She's a siren. The "real" Venus, Goddess of Love IS fickle, is shallow, is vengeful. She intended to kill Venus/Siren for merely impersonating her, then changed her mind after Venus/Siren battled her in song. Then gave Venus/Siren her golden sash and declared her the "true" Goddess of Love. That's a PERFECT (and wonderful) example of a god's flip-flopping ways. Hera's 180 on her scheme to destroy the world is another great example. I would want an Amora who is both fickle and passionate. Benevolent and wicked. Heroic and vengeful. I would "rather" she was less "evil" and more "troublesome", but as long as she kicks ass, I'll be happy.

I know and understand you perfectly, but in another board, I hear what one person told me what Bendis did with Alpha Flight and really I´m started to think the worst, so I'm somewhat confused in that aspect. You're right, I´ll try to think of something more than simply give the benefit of the doubt, but I hope he respects the character.

And I gave you examples where Bendis does great work (Morgan le Fay, Molecule Man, the Kingpin... all AMAZING Bendis villains). You've being bumping post after post about Amora for how long? Starting various threads about her (what is this, the third one in less than three months?). Even you have admitted you "desire" for her return has maybe got out of hand. And then, AT LONG LAST, you get her return. Do you say "awesome, thank-you Bendis." Do you rejoice? Do you do a cart wheel that FINALLY you get her back? No. You barely offer grudging support... in the realm of "I hope Bendis doesn't ruin her and respects her history." What more do you want? You got her back. BE GRATEFUL! It's not enough to offer semi-support. You wanted her back, you got her back. SUPPORT IT!

Think of it this way. You wanted her back (you were VERY pro-wanting her back). You got her back. You can rejoice. But you AREN'T being very supportive of the writer who brought her back. Why should you expect Bendis to show Amora any "loyalty by sticking to her history" when you offer so little to the writer who is finally bringing back your favourite character? (when no other writer would) That's wanting your cake and eating it, my friend. Sorry to be a di*k. But someone had to call you out on it. I was shocked when I saw your first "I'm worried it's Bendis" comment. That shows a SHOCKING amount of ingratitude (in my opinion). I like your posts Charlie, and respect you love for Amora (I love Karla just as much, and I have been fortunate in her constant appearances over the years, in wonderfull written and drawn books). I've been very lucky, and I want everyone to have as much luck. But you need to give credit where it's due, if you get my meaning?

yeah, really is very curious to know that she is one of the comic characters that almost never has changed her costume, simply little variations of the original, to see her in all of her awesomeness and to see how easy is to identify her.

Would you want to see her try a different colour? Not forever, but just for one arc/one appearance at a party? Like a mostly red outfit? Or maybe have her outfit changed to white when she's casting a spell? Kind of like Selene "blue-ing out" (awesomely, might I add) in X-force?

[Kieran_Frost]

You're right at one point, you indeed didn't address the Bendis stuff at me, though it did start after you expanded on my post on a subject that I did state later on that I do not wish to expand on (Bendis depiction of Le Fay or Bendis for the matter), would have been polite to leave me be.

Still, your comment was indeed not directed at me and my bitter joke seems to have annoyed you so much, so for that I apologize. It was not my objective to annoy you, just to use the joke to point out that the discussion on Bendis by himself is entirely out of topic, and that point still stands.

It's all good.

[Charlie_1981]

Ah, but "Venus" isn't ACTUALLY a goddess (not the one you are referencing). She's a siren. The "real" Venus, Goddess of Love IS fickle, is shallow, is vengeful. She intended to kill Venus/Siren for merely impersonating her, then changed her mind after Venus/Siren battled her in song. Then gave Venus/Siren her golden sash and declared her the "true" Goddess of Love. That's a PERFECT (and wonderful) example of a god's flip-flopping ways. Hera's 180 on her scheme to destroy the world is another great example. I would want an Amora who is both fickle and passionate. Benevolent and wicked. Heroic and vengeful. I would "rather" she was less "evil" and more "troublesome", but as long as she kicks ass, I'll be happy.

You're right about that, then, the example of Venus is good and it makes sense to talk about it.

And I gave you examples where Bendis does great work (Morgan le Fay, Molecule Man, the Kingpin... all AMAZING Bendis villains). You've being bumping post after post about Amora for how long? Starting various threads about her (what is this, the third one in less than three months?). Even you have admitted you "desire" for her return has maybe got out of hand. And then, AT LONG LAST, you get her return. Do you say "awesome, thank-you Bendis." Do you rejoice? Do you do a cart wheel that FINALLY you get her back? No. You barely offer grudging support... in the realm of "I hope Bendis doesn't ruin her and respects her history." What more do you want? You got her back. BE GRATEFUL! It's not enough to offer semi-support. You wanted her back, you got her back. SUPPORT IT!

Think of it this way. You wanted her back (you were VERY pro-wanting her back). You got her back. You can rejoice. But you AREN'T being very supportive of the writer who brought her back. Why should you expect Bendis to show Amora any "loyalty by sticking to her history" when you offer so little to the writer who is finally bringing back your favourite character? (when no other writer would) That's wanting your cake and eating it, my friend. Sorry to be a di*k. But someone had to call you out on it. I was shocked when I saw your first "I'm worried it's Bendis" comment. That shows a SHOCKING amount of ingratitude (in my opinion). I like your posts Charlie, and respect you love for Amora (I love Karla just as much, and I have been fortunate in her constant appearances over the years, in wonderfull written and drawn books). I've been very lucky, and I want everyone to have as much luck. But you need to give credit where it's due, if you get my meaning?

The truth is that as you say, maybe you're right and I have to stop all this negativity that may never be good, learn to be more grateful, no matter what happens and leave the doubts aside. Amora will be back again and that's the best thing that can happen.

Would you want to see her try a different colour? Not forever, but just for one arc/one appearance at a party? Like a mostly red outfit? Or maybe have her outfit changed to white when she's casting a spell? Kind of like Selene "blue-ing out" (awesomely, might I add) in X-force?

No, the truth is that green and black is better, also the only time I have seen a total change was in the Warren Ellis run, with drawings by Mike Deodato Jr, as I put on page 2, you can clearly see a dark purple color, which was fine, but didn't seem the same.

[Charlie_1981]

There is one thing that I've always been curious, why of all Marvel characters with magical powers, the Enchantress, always or almost always appears as if she was weak when obviously she isn’t?

I know perfectly well that the supposed logic, excuse or explanation for the fact of not being in Asgard, her powers diminishes without disappearing. The truth is that for me, that excuse is a little absurd and always is used to show The Enchantress in a very disrespectful way.

Amora, is powerful, is strong, she surprises She-Hulk in the Secret Wars, she can close her mind forcing Xavier, one of the most powerful telepaths on Earth to retire without achieving any results, perhaps Amora doesn’t know how to fight hand on hand, but she is much stronger than she is showed, perhaps at the level of She-Hulk.

For me, clearly, the Enchantress is much more powerful than Morgana Le Fay, and perhaps of all Asgardian gods, she seems the most human and she has the most knowledge about what is the Earth and how humans think.

In addition, Amora is also a woman who cannot look back and is able to be strong to continue with her life, at the Warren Ellis run, it was observed that she in the most deep of her heart, she need someone for not feel alone and that she has done more damage to herself than to other people.

Anyone think someday in a romantic relationship or friendship with Dr. Strange? Or perhaps become the best friend of the Scarlet Witch because of similarities on lifestyle, life moments and the powers of both females?

[lou-bert vs. q-bert]

I liked Zombie Enchantress.

[Charlie_1981]

I liked Zombie Enchantress.

In her short appearance, at first, I thought she was normal, but then, when I saw that she was a zombie like everyone else, I don´t liked it so much, besides that she did not last long. Well, I´m not a fan of the Zombie-verse.

[Jmacq1]

There is one thing that I've always been curious, why of all Marvel characters with magical powers, the Enchantress, always or almost always appears as if she was weak when obviously she isn’t?

I know perfectly well that the supposed logic, excuse or explanation for the fact of not being in Asgard, her powers diminishes without disappearing. The truth is that for me, that excuse is a little absurd and always is used to show The Enchantress in a very disrespectful way.

Amora, is powerful, is strong, she surprises She-Hulk in the Secret Wars, she can close her mind forcing Xavier, one of the most powerful telepaths on Earth to retire without achieving any results, perhaps Amora doesn’t know how to fight hand on hand, but she is much stronger than she is showed, perhaps at the level of She-Hulk.

I would disagree. Amora is usually presented as second only to Loki among Asgardian sorcerers. The only thing that makes her seem "weak" by comparison is that she doesn't have as much genuine malice as some other sorcerers. She's usually using her magic for self-interest and mischief rather than, say, trying to seize control of the Nine Realms for herself, but there are plenty of instances where she's been shown to be quite powerful. She isn't nearly as "undersold" as you make out.

In terms of physical strength, there's never been any indication that she's particularly above the average Asgardian, so no, she isn't nearly as physically strong as She-Hulk unless she uses magic to boost her strength. She would, however, still be far more strong than a normal human woman. However she's not a "get her hands dirty" type so she rarely exercises that strength. She'd rather use magic to accomplish her goals.

For me, clearly, the Enchantress is much more powerful than Morgana Le Fay, and perhaps of all Asgardian gods, she seems the most human and she has the most knowledge about what is the Earth and how humans think.

I don't think Amora is more powerful than Morgana Le Fay. I would say they're roughly equal, or that Morgana is slightly more powerful. Morgana isn't exactly a normal mortal woman herself. Amora also doesn't understand mortals except for how to use them. She generally doesn't think they're worth bothering with for any other purpose. She's a snob. (Incidentally, it's pretty much flat-out been told to us that Thor is the most "human" of the Asgardian gods)

In addition, Amora is also a woman who cannot look back and is able to be strong to continue with her life, at the Warren Ellis run, it was observed that she in the most deep of her heart, she need someone for not feel alone and that she has done more damage to herself than to other people.

You're assuming that her self-reflection in Ellis' run was genuine and not just her newest (and most successful) method of seducing Thor, though. I always enjoyed that aspect of Ellis' run...you could never be sure that Amora was being completely genuine or if, being a queen of seduction, she was simply saying what Thor wanted to hear. Quite frankly, the amount of introspection and self-examination was out-of-character for her. While she certainly IS codependent (or more accurately wants a big strong man around to protect her physically), she's really not the type to genuinely admit her own faults...unless she thinks she has something to gain from it.

Anyone think someday in a romantic relationship or friendship with Dr. Strange? Or perhaps become the best friend of the Scarlet Witch because of similarities on lifestyle, life moments and the powers of both females?

No...neither. She would never get with Strange because she'd feel too competitive over his magical abilities (plus, Strange is married IIRC) and he's a "mere mortal" who she can't manipulate easily for her own ends, and she'll never be "best friends" with another woman because the first time something good happens to her "friend" but not to Amora, Amora will probably try to sabotage if not outright kill her out of jealousy.

[Charlie_1981]

I would disagree. Amora is usually presented as second only to Loki among Asgardian sorcerers. The only thing that makes her seem "weak" by comparison is that she doesn't have as much genuine malice as some other sorcerers. She's usually using her magic for self-interest and mischief rather than, say, trying to seize control of the Nine Realms for herself, but there are plenty of instances where she's been shown to be quite powerful. She isn't nearly as "undersold" as you make out.

In terms of physical strength, there's never been any indication that she's particularly above the average Asgardian, so no, she isn't nearly as physically strong as She-Hulk unless she uses magic to boost her strength. She would, however, still be far more strong than a normal human woman. However she's not a "get her hands dirty" type so she rarely exercises that strength. She'd rather use magic to accomplish her goals.

Sometimes, I have the feeling that has been always been so, I´m admit that rarely, she has shown really powerful, but we must admit one thing, the writers often forget what is the Enchantress and usually they show her in a very disrespectful way. It is true that she never gets dirty hands to defeat her enemies and that she normally used magic to get rid of them because she is a witch, but from time to time, depending on the situation, I don't think it is so difficult, to take advantage that she is stronger than the vast majority of humans and use her Asgardian status to intimidate if the seduction doesn't work. I do not mean she lose the elegance that characterizes her, but it is what I think.

I don't think Amora is more powerful than Morgana Le Fay. I would say they're roughly equal, or that Morgana is slightly more powerful. Morgana isn't exactly a normal mortal woman herself. Amora also doesn't understand mortals except for how to use them. She generally doesn't think they're worth bothering with for any other purpose. She's a snob. (Incidentally, it's pretty much flat-out been told to us that Thor is the most "human" of the Asgardian gods)

I would not have it so clear, Morgana is from Camelot times, a few hundred years ago, but Amora is an Asgardian goddess, about 2000 or 3000 years old, therefore, I believe the experience should mean something.

The thing about if she understand the mortals or not, I think that on the last years, Amora has lived on Earth more time than on Asgard, and if you think in the building where she lives when she is exiled from there, I would say that she knows the basics and perhaps a little more about the behaviour and customs of humans in the recent era.

It is a problem of adaptation and perhaps if you think on Asgardians like Thor, Loki and the Valkyrie, Amora knows a lot about how to adapt to any situation.

You're assuming that her self-reflection in Ellis' run was genuine and not just her newest (and most successful) method of seducing Thor, though. I always enjoyed that aspect of Ellis' run...you could never be sure that Amora was being completely genuine or if, being a queen of seduction, she was simply saying what Thor wanted to hear. Quite frankly, the amount of introspection and self-examination was out-of-character for her. While she certainly IS codependent (or more accurately wants a big strong man around to protect her physically), she's really not the type to genuinely admit her own faults...unless she thinks she has something to gain from it.

Of course, I am assuming and that's what I liked a lot about this short run, see something different, it is true that she can not avoid to being who she is, but I thought, it was a very humane attitude on her part, and clearly demonstrates that she isn´t evil, maybe a very naughty girl.

In the Walter Simonson run, she attempted to apologize to her younger sister for something that remains unknown on what happened between them in their childhood, which leads me to your argument, nor the fact that her sister Lorelei is able to trust in her, may mean that you can be right in what you say, but really, an honest self-reflection on her part, recognizing that she has done more damage to herself than to other people and maybe, because of it her life is so lonely in a search of a love that seems don´t arrive, I think it shows something about her.

No...neither. She would never get with Strange because she'd feel too competitive over his magical abilities (plus, Strange is married IIRC) and he's a "mere mortal" who she can't manipulate easily for her own ends, and she'll never be "best friends" with another woman because the first time something good happens to her "friend" but not to Amora, Amora will probably try to sabotage if not outright kill her out of jealousy.

What? Strange is married, when?

May be, plus I think Dr. Strange respects the power of The Enchantress, in friendship with another woman, really Amora is very jealous, you´re right, but What do you think it would happen when Amora the Enchantress finds Sylvie Lushton the second Enchantress face to face? I think there might be a good friend (as long as there is no revelation that both can be family, being her daughter)

[Jmacq1]

Sometimes, I have the feeling that has been always been so, I´m admit that rarely, she has shown really powerful, but we must admit one thing, the writers often forget what is the Enchantress and usually they show her in a very disrespectful way. It is true that she never gets dirty hands to defeat her enemies and that she normally used magic to get rid of them because she is a witch, but from time to time, depending on the situation, I don't think it is so difficult, to take advantage that she is stronger than the vast majority of humans and use her Asgardian status to intimidate if the seduction doesn't work. I do not mean she lose the elegance that characterizes her, but it is what I think.

I don't really see all these "disrespectful" appearances you're talking about. She can't just come out and beat everyone everytime she shows up...that doesn't make for a good story.

I would not have it so clear, Morgana is from Camelot times, a few hundred years ago, but Amora is an Asgardian goddess, about 2000 or 3000 years old, therefore, I believe the experience should mean something.

The ages of the Asgardians haven't really been laid down that clearly. She doesn't have the cumulative experience of all the different Ragnarok cycles she's been through, and this current incarnation of the Asgardians may only be a few hundred years old. Not all that much older than Camelot. Beyond that, experience does not always trump talent and power in comics. Plus, Amora may be talented, but she can also be lazy and self-indulgent. She doesn't likely spend all her spare time honing her magical skills...she spends a lot of time pampering herself.

The thing about if she understand the mortals or not, I think that on the last years, Amora has lived on Earth more time than on Asgard, and if you think in the building where she lives when she is exiled from there, I would say that she knows the basics and perhaps a little more about the behaviour and customs of humans in the recent era.

She knows them well enough to impersonate them, but she doesn't really have any deep insight into "human nature" and whatnot. Even when she's lived on Earth she generally holds herself apart, and even when she surrounds herself with mortals they're usually just her "pets" (like Ellis' run). She's expressed plenty of disdain for mortals even in recent times. I don't think she considers them much more than animals in most cases. A little bit more perhaps, but certainly not the equal of any Asgardian.

Of course, I am assuming and that's what I liked a lot about this short run, see something different, it is true that she can not avoid to being who she is, but I thought, it was a very humane attitude on her part, and clearly demonstrates that she isn´t evil, maybe a very naughty girl.

That depends on your definition of evil. Even in Ellis' run she vaporized a policeman for no other reason than spite/amusement. I'd say cold-blooded murder is pretty evil, wouldn't you? It goes beyond "Naughty" once you're willing to kill for petty reasons like vanity, greed, and (especially) amusement. Amora may be nuanced evil, and may not be as outright malicious and all-encompassing evil as say, Loki, but just because she has redeeming qualities or a sympathetic portrayal doesn't make her "not evil."

In the Walter Simonson run, she attempted to apologize to her younger sister for something that remains unknown on what happened between them in their childhood, which leads me to your argument, nor the fact that her sister Lorelei is able to trust in her, may mean that you can be right in what you say, but really, an honest self-reflection on her part, recognizing that she has done more damage to herself than to other people and maybe, because of it her life is so lonely in a search of a love that seems don´t arrive, I think it shows something about her.

I think the Enchantress has succeeded in seducing you. Like I said, moments of sympathy or even kindness doesn't necessarily outweigh her evil acts.

What? Strange is married, when?

I know he was married to Clea at some point. They might be divorced or in an "open" relationship or something, though (especially as she lives in a different dimension).

May be, plus I think Dr. Strange respects the power of The Enchantress, in friendship with another woman, really Amora is very jealous, you´re right, but What do you think it would happen when Amora the Enchantress finds Sylvie Lushton the second Enchantress face to face? I think there might be a good friend (as long as there is no revelation that both can be family, being her daughter)

I could see Amora meeting Sylvie as going a couple different ways. If Amora's in a bad mood, she'll probably hurt/kill/disfigure/curse/all of the above Sylvie for daring to "steal" her name. If she's not feeling that spiteful, I could see Amora taking on an apprentice if she thinks she might be useful...or even as a replacement for Lorlei. It'd be a dangerous relationship though, because the first time Sylvie shows any sign of approaching or exceeding Amora's own power, Amora would likely start doing very nasty things to her, or would at the very least stop teaching her.

[Charlie_1981]

I don't really see all these "disrespectful" appearances you're talking about. She can't just come out and beat everyone everytime she shows up...that doesn't make for a good story.

The disrespectful appearances, I have seen them several times and barely we seen the Enchantress in all her power, I find it very hard to read a story and see things that make no sense, besides being defeated by low level characters (I mean about power levels) like Dazzler, an apprentice Scarlet Witch in the old stories of The Avengers, The New Mutants ... I know and I recognise that rarely we has seen a villain to have success in their plans. Perhaps Magneto, Kingpin, Dr. Doom, Loki (in some cases), Amora´s goal is that Thor loves her and therefore she don't hesitate to use any means and she has achieved this goal on the last years, although for this, she has needed to change.

The ages of the Asgardians haven't really been laid down that clearly. She doesn't have the cumulative experience of all the different Ragnarok cycles she's been through, and this current incarnation of the Asgardians may only be a few hundred years old. Not all that much older than Camelot. Beyond that, experience does not always trump talent and power in comics. Plus, Amora may be talented, but she can also be lazy and self-indulgent. She doesn't likely spend all her spare time honing her magical skills...she spends a lot of time pampering herself.

That is possible, but even so, I still believe that Amora is much more powerful than Morgana Le Fay, for me, would make no sense to put her on the same level or lower than the Scarlet Witch or Magik, it is true that the Scarlet Witch is on a very high level to the point of changing an entire race like The Mutants or change the reality, something that The Enchantress also knows how to make it and even change over time as I saw when I´m reading an old story of the Avengers which was The first appearance of Inmortus, and also on Avengers Forever, something that was also observed in a panel to remind it.

She knows them well enough to impersonate them, but she doesn't really have any deep insight into "human nature" and whatnot. Even when she's lived on Earth she generally holds herself apart, and even when she surrounds herself with mortals they're usually just her "pets" (like Ellis' run). She's expressed plenty of disdain for mortals even in recent times. I don't think she considers them much more than animals in most cases. A little bit more perhaps, but certainly not the equal of any Asgardian.

It is a possibility, but of all Asgardians, it is clear that she has a slightly larger knowledge than other Asgardians in this sense. Look at Sif, she also feels disdain for mortals and she is a good woman like The Valkyrie, more than once for that reason, Sif has broken her relationship with Thor, something that the Enchantress had not done.

That depends on your definition of evil. Even in Ellis' run she vaporized a policeman for no other reason than spite/amusement. I'd say cold-blooded murder is pretty evil, wouldn't you? It goes beyond "Naughty" once you're willing to kill for petty reasons like vanity, greed, and (especially) amusement. Amora may be nuanced evil, and may not be as outright malicious and all-encompassing evil as say, Loki, but just because she has redeeming qualities or a sympathetic portrayal doesn't make her "not evil."

I know that, so I had not used that argument. The fact is that in the last thread I wrote, I had put an anti-heroine option that would be what she may be, plus there are many people regarded as "heroes" who have killed in cold blood, and even they have been worse than their enemies, using methods that have nothing to do with being a hero. Amora is an angel compared to others.

I think the Enchantress has succeeded in seducing you. Like I said, moments of sympathy or even kindness doesn't necessarily outweigh her evil acts.

Jajaja , I do not know, but really as I said, for me and certainly for others, she isn´t evil, at least now, in her first appearances, she was even worse than Emma Frost. It is curious that more than half of the female characters, the writers have hardened their personalities and in the case of the Enchantress. they have softened her personality.

I know he was married to Clea at some point. They might be divorced or in an "open" relationship or something, though (especially as she lives in a different dimension).

I didn't know it

I could see Amora meeting Sylvie as going a couple different ways. If Amora's in a bad mood, she'll probably hurt/kill/disfigure/curse/all of the above Sylvie for daring to "steal" her name. If she's not feeling that spiteful, I could see Amora taking on an apprentice if she thinks she might be useful...or even as a replacement for Lorlei. It'd be a dangerous relationship though, because the first time Sylvie shows any sign of approaching or exceeding Amora's own power, Amora would likely start doing very nasty things to her, or would at the very least stop teaching her.

I have thought many times on it and will be really interesting and cool to see someday. With Amora, I would not see that, I think she could be a great master even if Sylvie approaches or exceeded Amora´s power, but I admit that would be a dangerous relationship. Lorelei would be somewhat different, because, could have many envy, resentment, vengeance, clash of personalities, too much arrogance, attitudes of young girl.

[lou-bert vs. q-bert]

In her short appearance, at first, I thought she was normal, but then, when I saw that she was a zombie like everyone else, I don´t liked it so much, besides that she did not last long. Well, I´m not a fan of the Zombie-verse.

Ditto. Besides, I liked the Enchantress more in Secret Wars I.

[Charlie_1981]

Ditto. Besides, I liked the Enchantress more in Secret Wars I.

True, in Secret Wars I, she was quite good, but also I looked her a bit away from the others despite being with them at any moment, well it is normal because she is a goddess and the other are mere mortals, and curiously at Spiderman & The Secret Wars#3 it was showed a good portrayal of her.

Amora is intelligent and that is a part of her that should be showing more, her sorcery´s knowledge, how she is able to move between dimensions...