Game of Thrones

[Spike-X]

Yeah, it's definitely about exploring the consequences of the BIG EPIC ACTION, rather than the BIG EPIC ACTION being the point of the whole thing.

[wildclaw]

He seems pretty damn memorable to me, the way he carried himself was perfect.

The thing I think you're missing is that this really isn't an action show at all, it's more politics than anything else the action is there almost as just a window dressing, it's basically if the West Wing was set in the dark ages. Sure there is violence and there is a war going on but that's not really what the show is about that's just stuff going on the back ground, the real show is about this ensemble of characters and their various intimate interactions. The pay off isn't in the battles, it's in all the little personal character moments and in that it succeeds all expectations.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I've already said that I'm not looking for Troy the tv series, but I will feel short changed when there are times in the show where it would have been natural for an action sequence to be fit in. I'm fine with them not showing massive battle sequences with thousands of guys on screen but scenes like Jamie's capture, I felt shouldn't have been glossed over like they did. The show could just shown how Robb's squad captured him and I would have been satisfied. They way it played out in the episode, I felt like they cut the scene out for time. Hence why they should add 1-2 more eps to the season.

Oh well, I'm getting away from my original point, Drago never made me believe he was a real badass because he never really did anything I thought that elevated him that much above his dothraki brethren. The one time he fought he spent too much time talking about what he would do to the guy's body after he killed him, and what makes it worse he causes himself to die by purposely letting him self get cut and subsequently getting an infection. Badass, not in my eyes.

That's about all I have to say on this subject.

[Spike-X]

If you've read the books, you'll know that they've had to cut a hell of a lot out to try and fit everything in.

[wildclaw]

If you've read the books, you'll know that they've had to cut a hell of a lot out to try and fit everything in.

I'm only about a quarter way through the second book. A lot of these episodes are Jam-packed with a lot of content. My main solution to this problem as I said earlier is to make the newer seasons 12 episodes a piece like True blood, Dexter, Spartacus etc. so it wouldn't have to cut as much.

[thwhtGuardian]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I've already said that I'm not looking for Troy the tv series, but I will feel short changed when there are times in the show where it would have been natural for an action sequence to be fit in. I'm fine with them not showing massive battle sequences with thousands of guys on screen but scenes like Jamie's capture, I felt shouldn't have been glossed over like they did. The show could just shown how Robb's squad captured him and I would have been satisfied. They way it played out in the episode, I felt like they cut the scene out for time. Hence why they should add 1-2 more eps to the season.

Oh well, I'm getting away from my original point, Drago never made me believe he was a real badass because he never really did anything I thought that elevated him that much above his dothraki brethren. The one time he fought he spent too much time talking about what he would do to the guy's body after he killed him, and what makes it worse he causes himself to die by purposely letting him self get cut and subsequently getting an infection. Badass, not in my eyes.

That's about all I have to say on this subject.

I don't think it would have been natural though as I don't see it as being about the action and the show seems all the better for that. Skipping the skirmish with Rob's sacrificial army was extremely effective not only because it gave us a fun character moment with Tyrion but because we were experiencing the battle from his perspective and he was out cold it was also a clever way of surprising the audience. There was this build up to an epic battle, and then there was the suspense over what had happened when Tyrion woke up, suspense that never would have been there had we witnessed the battle out right. It's the same with the capture of Jaime, the act of Rob capturing while it would have undoubtedly been a cool action scene would have accomplished next to nothing in the field of real character development, and since that's the focus any scene that strays from achieving that would pretty much be fluff.

On the subject of Drogo, the fact that people were intimidated by him and differed to him was more than enough, understated actions like are far more compelling to me than if we actually saw him killing guys left and right. It's that element of the unknown, which is far more effective intellectually than out right violence, I mean we're talking about a bunch of barbarians here, they're pretty desensitized to violence so just beating up a bunch of guys isn't going to impress them that much much, so the fact that they respected Drogo and gave him space made me think, "man what the hell did he do to get them to be that frightened?". That we never got that answer on screen is all the more compelling as the horrors and savagery in my mind are far greater than anything they could have put on screen. It's for that very same reason that Lagosi's Dracula was far more intimidating with just a tilt of his head and a smile than all the slasher villains combined.

And dieing from an infection? That's just reality, getting wounded then was just as bad as dieing in the battle as it meant the same thing nine times out of ten only much slower and with out any of the glory.

[wildclaw]

I don't think it would have been natural though as I don't see it as being about the action and the show seems all the better for that. Skipping the skirmish with Rob's sacrificial army was extremely effective not only because it gave us a fun character moment with Tyrion but because we were experiencing the battle from his perspective and he was out cold it was also a clever way surprising the audience.

I'm not talking about distraction battle, I'm talking specifically the capture of Jamie Lanister by robb's squad in the woods. I would have really liked to see the kingslayer's get outsmarted and ambushed, since that was the primary mission in that entire phase of the campaign. Tyrion's side of the battle was not nearly as important since it was just a distraction.

The fact that his people were intimidated by him and differed to him was more than enough, understated actions like are far more compelling to me than if we actually saw him killing guys left in right. It's for that reason Lagosi's Dracula was far more intimidating with just a tilt of his head and a smile than all the slasher villains combined.

If you feel that way.

And dieing from an infection? That's just reality, getting wounded then was just as bad as dieing in the battle as it meant the same thing nine times out of ten.

Never said it wasn't realistic, I just find it dumb that he caused his own death by moving into the guys blade to prove a point. Then he neglected to take care of his would properly. I didn't like how they wrote the events that led to his death.

[thwhtGuardian]

Never said it wasn't realistic, I just find it dumb that he caused his own death by moving into the guys blade to prove a point. Then he neglected to take care of his would properly. I didn't like how they wrote the events that led to his death.

But what would have all that action accomplished in terms of real character development? Above all else that is the focus, I mean sure the spectacle would have been cool to see but other than that what would it have achieved that wasn't achieved by omitting it? I'd also argue that Tyrion's battle was far more compelling scene than if we had seen the capture of Jaime. That quick burst of shock and suspense had greater emotional resonance than any sword battle ever could have achieved.

As for subtle versus overt, it seems clear to me that the initial shock of the abrupt blood shed and violence fades far faster than the horrors of the mind. I don't know about you but the utter savagery and total disregard for human life that I imagined that Drogo must have wrought on his own people to gain their respect was far more horrifying than anything they could have actually put on screen. Sure it's HBO but even that has its level of decency.

And it wasn't really neglect...that's just the state of medicine.

[wildclaw]

I don't think it would have been natural though as I don't see it as being about the action and the show seems all the better for that. Skipping the skirmish with Rob's sacrificial army was extremely effective not only because it gave us a fun character moment with Tyrion but because we were experiencing the battle from his perspective and he was out cold it was also a clever way of surprising the audience. There was this build up to an epic battle, and then there was the suspense over what had happened when Tyrion woke up, suspense that never would have been there had we witnessed the battle out right. It's the same with the capture of Jaime, the act of Rob capturing while it would have undoubtedly been a cool action scene would have accomplished next to nothing in the field of real character development, and since that's the focus any scene that strays from achieving that would pretty much be fluff.

I'm not talking about distraction battle, I'm talking specifically the capture of Jamie Lanister by robb's squad in the woods. I would have really liked to see the kingslayer's get outsmarted and ambushed, since that was the primary mission in that entire phase of the campaign. How would seeing Robb actually in the field and leading a squad of his men (for the first time on screen) to ambush the Lanister camp and capturing the kingslayer himself be fluff? Scenes like that would help to show that Robb is actually worthy of leading people into battle despite the doubts of his mother and his enemies. You're reaching with that one. Tyrion's side of the battle was not nearly as important since it was just a distraction.

On the subject of Drogo, the fact that people were intimidated by him and differed to him was more than enough, understated actions like are far more compelling to me than if we actually saw him killing guys left and right. It's that element of the unknown, which is far more effective intellectually than out right violence, I mean we're talking about a bunch of barbarians here, they're pretty desensitized to violence so just beating up a bunch of guys isn't going to impress them that much much, so the fact that they respected Drogo and gave him space made me think, "man what the hell did he do to get them to be that frightened?". That we never got that answer on screen is all the more compelling as the horrors and savagery in my mind are far greater than anything they could have put on screen. It's for that very same reason that Lagosi's Dracula was far more intimidating with just a tilt of his head and a smile than all the slasher villains combined.

If you feel like he was intimidating and badass the way he was presented, good for you.

For me, when a story tries to hype me up that a guy is the baddest man on the planet, the story has to actually show me him being a bad man. The story has to do something for me believe the character deserves that distinction that they are giving him. Sitting around smirking doesn't work for me, you got to show him doing something that puts him on another level compared to the other dothraki for me to buy what you're selling. There was a different version of the events in the book that led to him getting his wounds that would have looked a lot better if that was what they choose to put in the script.

And dieing from an infection? That's just reality, getting wounded then was just as bad as dieing in the battle as it meant the same thing nine times out of ten.

Never said it wasn't realistic, I just find it dumb they way it was written that he caused his own death by moving into the guys blade on purpose to prove a point. Then he neglected to take care of his wound properly. I just didn't like how they wrote the events that led to his death, it almost makes me want to laugh at him now that I'm really thinking about it which is the last thing I want to do when I think about Drogo.

I was trying to edit my previous post but it won't let me.

[Saturn Girl]

Drogo's wound got infected because the witch purposely botched the healing. She saw an opportunity to get her revenge on the man who led the army that raped her and destroyed her village, and she took it.

[wildclaw]

Drogo's wound got infected because the witch purposely botched the healing. She saw an opportunity to get her revenge on the man who led the army that raped her and destroyed her village, and she took it.

Drogo started the chain of events by pressing his chest into the guy's weapon on purpose, he didn't have to do that. If the healing lady wasn't there, he would have left it alone to get infected anyway.

To thwhtGuardian: Are you really trying to tell me this show's quality would go down (not up) if they showed Jamie's capture? If they backed up all the hype talk about Drogo with one fight to showcase his skills? If that's what you are trying to argue, then I'm going to log out now because this is going to go round and around in circles. Not all action is filler.

[Saturn Girl]

Drogo started the chain of events by pressing his chest into the guy's weapon on purpose, he didn't have to do that. If the healing lady wasn't there, he would have left it alone to get infected anyway.

No, he would have let someone else clean the wound. His flaw was indulging Dany's wishes to protect the sheep women. If Dany hadn't naively trusted the witch, Drogo would still be alive.

But his death was necessary for Dany's story to move forward. His death not only woke the dragons, but it was the final step for Dany to become powerful by her own right, instead of holding power as the wife of a Khal. By leaving Drogo behind, she became her own person in charge of her own destiny for the first time in her whole life.

[wildclaw]

No, he would have let someone else clean the wound. His flaw was indulging Dany's wishes to protect the sheep women. If Dany hadn't naively trusted the witch, Drogo would still be alive.

But his death was necessary for Dany's story to move forward. His death not only woke the dragons, but it was the final step for Dany to become powerful by her own right, instead of holding power as the wife of a Khal. By leaving Drogo behind, she became her own person in charge of her own destiny for the first time in her whole life.

That doesn't really excuse his behavior in the scene. As soon as the blade touched his chest, he should have backed off just a little bit to reduce the damage. He got cocky defending Dany's honor in front of her and it bit him in the ass. That scene could have been executed (rewritten) a lot better to get the same result and lead to the same plot developments.

[Alex]

it's up up down down left right left right a b

select start, newb!

[thwhtGuardian]

Drogo started the chain of events by pressing his chest into the guy's weapon on purpose, he didn't have to do that. If the healing lady wasn't there, he would have left it alone to get infected anyway.

To thwhtGuardian: Are you really trying to tell me this show's quality would go down (not up) if they showed Jamie's capture? If they backed up all the hype talk about Drogo with one fight to showcase his skills? If that's what you are trying to argue, then I'm going to log out now because this is going to go round and around in circles. Not all action is filler.

I'm saying it wouldn't improve anything, not in the scenes you're talking about anyway. Jaime's capture would have been just like every other sword battle in a hundred other movies and brought little to no real emotional impact, where as the tension and suspense we got from Tryion waking up in the battle field to "we won" was unique and exciting. Like wise the subtle reactions that Drogo elicited were much more telling than any show of force, like I said this is a totally desensitized group so the fact that they feared him meant that he must have done some truly barbaric shit, acts that could never be displayed on TV even on HBO. That level of violence and horror is far better expressed as an undertone or an insinuation rather than trying to show it out right.

There are scenes where it's necessary, but the scenes you're talking about would be just generic action scenes that wouldn't really add anything to the character drama that the show focuses on.

[Spike-X]

I'm only about a quarter way through the second book. A lot of these episodes are Jam-packed with a lot of content. My main solution to this problem as I said earlier is to make the newer seasons 12 episodes a piece like True blood, Dexter, Spartacus etc. so it wouldn't have to cut as much.

That's a great idea! I assume you'll be willing to pay to have these two extra episodes per year made?

Man, I bet the executives at HBO are smacking themselves on the forehead right now. "Of course! We should just make more episodes! Why the hell didn't we think of that?"