Game of Thrones

[Dreadstar]

fair enough...but I think, and this is just from the books that the line of succession goes children first, then family

Exactly correct. But it doesn't make any solid declaration about bastard children, only innuendo that the bastard may (repeat: may) have more claim than a brother.

Frankly, I agree with you about Dany. The Targarion line is a legitimate claim, and most compelling. Plus, if Dany can bring an army back to Westeros and kick some ass, she doubles her claim, both as deposed family *and* as conqueror.

Just a guess, so no spoiler tags needed, but I think that's the ultimate fate of the Westeros crown in the end. And there are a lot of alternate possibilities, too.

[Forseti]

I seem to remember that female relatives are ineligible in the line of succession. In the books, the Martels are noted for being allowed to ignore that rule as part of their accord with the Iron Throne. (As far as their own family succession is concerned anyway.) That disqualifies Dany, short of her having a son or taking power through conquest and overthrowing traditional law. Wouldn't be the first time she defies a patriarchal society.

[Dreadstar]

I seem to remember that female relatives are ineligible in the line of succession. In the books, the Martels are noted for being allowed to ignore that rule as part of their accord with the Iron Throne. (As far as their own family succession is concerned anyway.) That disqualifies Dany, short of her having a son or taking power through conquest and overthrowing traditional law. Wouldn't be the first time she defies a patriarchal society.

That's a good point. So by the rules of Westeros, Dany can only legitimately make claim via conquest.

[Alex]

That's a good point. So by the rules of Westeros, Dany can only legitimately make claim via conquest.

Robert brought this up in the show, probably the books as well, pointing out what would happen if she started having kids.

[Evil Sneak]

I've got a couple of questions.

1. From the beginning of Game of Thrones to the end of Dance of Dragons how much time has passed?

2. When Robert's Rebellion was won and the throne was for the taking what made Robert's claim more valid than the Starks, Tullys or Lannisters?

[Alex]

I've got a couple of questions.

1. From the beginning of Game of Thrones to the end of Dance of Dragons how much time has passed?

2. When Robert's Rebellion was won and the throne was for the taking what made Robert's claim more valid than the Starks, Tullys or Lannisters?

It was his rebellion.
I don't think he started it because of any rule of law, the king went nuts and he started a rebellion. Since he lead the rebellion...

[Eliseu Gouveia]

what made Robert's claim more valid than the Starks, Tullys or Lannisters?

My guess is:

Ned didn´t want the iron throne

Jaimie, the Kingslayer was deemed a traitor by everyone else.

[Evil Sneak]

I (vaguely) remember Jamie asking Ned why didn't he take the throne, Ned was the first to arrive at King's Landing, had the larger army and would've been better suited to run the kingdom than Robert. To this Ned replied that Robert had a better claim to the throne.

I was just wondering if the Baratheons and Targaryens are distantly related.

[thwhtGuardian]

I (vaguely) remember Jamie asking Ned why didn't he take the throne, Ned was the first to arrive at King's Landing, had the larger army and would've been better suited to run the kingdom than Robert. To this Ned replied that Robert had a better claim to the throne.

I was just wondering if the Baratheons and Targaryens are distantly related.

In the books they're related in two ways, their progenitor Orys Baratheon was rumored to be Aegon I's bastard brother and then later Princess Rhaelle Targaryen married into the Baratheon family and she gave birth to Robert's father.

[Jared]

Well....they have the 2 kinds of magic 1) Death magic and 2) Nature (old religion) magic which is genetic. Although, I count Dragons and back from the dead, flesh eating Zombies as magic too.

Hey now, the zombies don't eat flesh, as far as we know.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the sexual proclivities of the Baratheon boys in the books -- hinted at, but never made that explicit, were they? No confirmed nookie for either Renly or Stannis?

Characters make remarks about Loras and Renley that are quite clear they know (or at least believe) them to have been more than bros.
Melisandre and Stannis is confirmed at least twice, by her words and thoughts. And also that spoilers:

the shadowspan that Cat sees seems to her to have Stannis's essence.

end of spoilers

The magic seems to have accelerated after the birth of the Dragons.

A minor point later in book 2: the head pyromancer in Kings Landing notes that their alchememical production of a Greek Fire-like substance has unexpectedly become more efficient, and says that should only happen if dragons were born.

I've got a couple of questions.

1. From the beginning of Game of Thrones to the end of Dance of Dragons how much time has passed?

Two-three years, I guess.

2. When Robert's Rebellion was won and the throne was for the taking what made Robert's claim more valid than the Starks, Tullys or Lannisters?

1. Robert's grandmother was a Targaryen. (Most noble houses have at least some Targaryen lineage, but his was strongest and most recent).

2. Robert led the rebellion.

3. Ned Stark never wanted a crown. I doubt Jon Arryn, the other principle rebel leader, did, he was also kinda old already, and possibly without an heir.

4. The Lannisters sided with the Targaryens and only switched near the end. None of the Lannisters would have had a legit claim anyway. Though they would have, if Cersi had been married to Prince Rhaegar as Tywin had originally hoped. But then, she might have been dead just as well.

[StoneGold]

Exactly correct. But it doesn't make any solid declaration about bastard children, only innuendo that the bastard may (repeat: may) have more claim than a brother.

Frankly, I agree with you about Dany. The Targarion line is a legitimate claim, and most compelling. Plus, if Dany can bring an army back to Westeros and kick some ass, she doubles her claim, both as deposed family *and* as conqueror.

Just a guess, so no spoiler tags needed, but I think that's the ultimate fate of the Westeros crown in the end. And there are a lot of alternate possibilities, too.

Course, there's also the popular theory that circumvents all this...

spoilers:

Rhaegar and Lyanna were secret married, Jon is their son, making him rightful heir even over Dany as direct firstborn line of succession.

end of spoilers

All of that being theory, though. spoilers:

And assuming he survives the end of the last book, which I'm assuming he does.

end of spoilers

[the_coldest_sun]

Is there a nice website somewhere that acts a guide to who is who? Little portraits of each character, preferrably in family/allegiance groupings, etc...?

HBO's official Game of Thrones Viewer's Guide is a great spoiler-free source for Houses & maps.

Televisionwithoutpity has also compiled a spoiler-free Character Reference Sheet with short descriptions, House mottos & claims, etc. They often update it episode-to-episode when more information or characters are introduced.

[Omega Alpha]

fair enough...but I think, and this is just from the books that the line of succession goes children first, then family

but Dany IMO has just as legit a claim

In the Iron Throne it goes>>> Sons (or grandsons, great-grandsons, etc) - Brothers- Uncles- Male Cousins- Pretty much any male relative- and then Daughters, Sisters, etc.

Baelor the Blessed (most ironically title of all time) had 3 sisters, but his uncle inherited the throne afterwards.

I seem to remember that female relatives are ineligible in the line of succession. In the books, the Martels are noted for being allowed to ignore that rule as part of their accord with the Iron Throne. (As far as their own family succession is concerned anyway.) That disqualifies Dany, short of her having a son or taking power through conquest and overthrowing traditional law. Wouldn't be the first time she defies a patriarchal society.

No, what makes Dorne different is that the eldest child inherits, regards of it's gender, not that it allows women to inherit. Seespoilers:

Cersei inheriting Casterly Rock after Tywin died

end of spoilers

[MagSeven]

Nellie looks like Joffrey. Can't unsee.

[Deathstroke]

Nellie looks like Joffrey. Can't unsee.

Ironic since you have Nellie's arch-nemesis is called Half-Pint and Tyrion actually is...