So, how much does gordon know, exactly?

[blaXXer]

I was just re-reading blackest Night: Batman, and I noticed that, when Damian was getting Gordon and Babs to safety we see Alfred in the background helping them...
So how much does Gordon actually know about who are the current and past Bat-Men?

Looking back to NML, when Bruce wanted to unmask in Gordon's backyard and he turned away, not wanting to know who as under the cowl...what changed his mind?

[RonnieThunderbolts]

I was just re-reading blackest Night: Batman, and I noticed that, when Damian was getting Gordon and Babs to safety we see Alfred in the background helping them...
So how much does Gordon actually know about who are the current and past Bat-Men?

Looking back to NML, when Bruce wanted to unmask in Gordon's backyard and he turned away, not wanting to know who as under the cowl...what changed his mind?

Good question. As near as I can tell, nothing has changed his mind. In that No Man's Land scene you reference Gordon even says, how do you know he doesn't already know who is under the mask, that he preferred to continue "not knowing," implying heavily that he is aware of Batman's true identity, but that he is in denial, probably for both emotional (Barbara's involvement) and legal (his responsibilities are sometimes in conflict with Batman's methods) benefit. Personally, I don't think having Alfred in some of the same the scenes in Blackest Night doesn't necessarily change anything, and it certainly doesn't confirm either way whether or not he is now acknowledging whatever it is that he knows.

[blaXXer]

Oh but in these scenes, with Gordon being in the Bat-Bunker, and Alfred working for Batman and Robin, actually talking to Gordon by then, surely he has to know. Yes, sure he can still pretend to be ignorant but he is not THAT dumb ;)

By now, he surely has to know that Bruce Wayne is *somehow* involved in all of this, not to mention Grayson, Drake and Damian.

/edit: that's the panel I was referring to:

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Oh but in these scenes, with Gordon being in the Bat-Bunker, and Alfred working for Batman and Robin, actually talking to Gordon by then, surely he has to know. Yes, sure he can still pretend to be ignorant but he is not THAT dumb ;)

By now, he surely has to know that Bruce Wayne is *somehow* involved in all of this, not to mention Grayson, Drake and Damian.

As I said though, in the No Man's Land quote he intimated he was already aware of Batman's double life. He is totally just playing dumb.

[blaXXer]

Sure, I got that, I may have worded my response wrongly, tho: Can he still play dumb when it's made so obvious? Should he?

I think it was time it was adressed in the comics, at least somehow.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

I don't think it is necessary to talk about it, at least, for Gordon to talk about it. I think he has his reasons for his denial. But, I wouldn't be annoyed if Bruce, after coming back, filled in Damian that Gordon knows way more than he lets on, or, that he has his reasons for not acknowledging what he knows, or something to that effect, as I'd presume Alfred, Dick and Tim are aware (in addition to Bruce and Barbara) that Jim is aware of their identities, but it isn't spoken of. For one thing, in addition to Gordon's personal reasons, not really talking about it is probably good for their anonymity, less chance of being overheard if it is never spoken outloud.

[thwhtGuardian]

I've always thought the reason he plays dumb isn't that he doesn't want the bat family to know that he's in on the secret but rather it's so the public of Gotham City doesn't think that he knows.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

I've always thought the reason he plays dumb isn't that he doesn't want the bat family to know that he's in on the secret but rather it's so the public of Gotham City doesn't think that he knows.

Absolutely.

[FHIZ]

Also in NML he lives it very open ended when he says that for all Batman knows that he could have figured it out already. I think he chooses not to acknowledge who is under the cowl due to his duty as a cop. Batman isn't really the most legal public figure in Gotham. He'd probably have a "duty" to arrest him, but doesn't because he knows how much Gotham needs Batman.

Also, he's pretty astute to the going ons within the Batfam. Like during Battle for the Cowl he obviously knows something happened to Batman when he asks Nightwing "Are you okay son?" and if I'm correct in one of the recent series he takes notice that it isn't the same Batman.

[Jorriss]

I've always taken NML's as a strike against him knowing.

Why would he have been mad at Batman for leaving if he knew Bruce Wayne left to try and get federal funding?

[elbobbo]

I think it really depends on who's writing as to how aware Gordon is of the truth.
Also I believe that in one of the early B&R there is a scene where he comments that he knows it is not the same Batman and that "the new Robin seems familiar"

[Kate Fatale]

I've always thought that deep down Gordon knows, but, for reasons others have stated already, can't and/or won't acknowledge it. He's a sharp guy.

I always loved those scenes in BTAS when Bruce did something particularly Batman-y in front of Gordon, then tried to fake stupidity or cowardice to explain what he'd just done. I wanted Gordon to put a hand on his shoulder and tell him to just stop it.

I think it really depends on who's writing as to how aware Gordon is of the truth.
Also I believe that in one of the early B&R there is a scene where he comments that he knows it is not the same Batman and that "the new Robin seems familiar"

Yeah, Talia should have thought that through a bit, considering she's the one who tells him that this is Batman's son, then Hush calls Damian Bruce's son on TV and so forth.

On a similar subject, is it still ambiguous as to whether or not Gordon knows about Babs? Sometimes in the past he's known, but I'm not sure if that's still continuity or not.

[Darthhobbit]

I think Gordon knows, I believe in Dark Knight Returns the reason Gordon knows is because when Bruce "retires" Gordon says he always knew. Plus I agree, Gordon is no idiot and he must have noticed Oracle doing weird things(she is his daughter after all, there is a connection) and Alfred helping Batman/Robin must have backed up his deductions. I just think Gordon knows and chooses to doubt so he doesnt feel obliged to say anything.

[Choppa]

Obviously in the new continuity free stories it depends on who is writing the book that will determine if Gordon should act if he should know or not.

That scene in NML reminded me how little continuity matters anymore. In it Gordon was pretty upset that Bruce didn't let him know when he had JPV and Dick being Batman, but now he notices something different about (Dick) Batman but doesn't seem to care. There's not even a mention of that scene having taken place.

[Lester C.]

Don't forget when Babs confessed he said he already knew but didn't know about her being Oracle. So I think he knows some of it but not all.