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  1. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by americanwonder View Post
    Back to the bigger topic - if I may, I'm curious to see how folks here would compare the use of sex and sexiness in Catwoman #1 and Batwoman #3 (I believe it's #3, the issue she has sex with Maggie). Any thoughts? Anyone?
    Honestly, I was not thrilled by Batwoman having the sex with Maggie be told with interlacing with Bette getting beaten. But id did serve the story, showing Kate and Maggie ting serious fast and establishing Kate's universe. It was also drawn really pretty. The Catwoman sex scene was more indicative of the uneven plotting the book suffers from even if one could be more generous about it in the first issue.

  2. #332

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksun View Post
    What DC was planning to do?
    I don't know. And in the interview I read, Azzarello didn't say. He just said he didn't like what DC was thinking about. Given DC's track record, I can't say I really trust them. Here's a quote:

    "The change of her origin was something everyone wanted from the get-go," Azzarello told Newsarama yesterday, after the issue had been released. "The origin of Cliff and I doing Wonder Woman was that idea. I found out they were going to change her origin, and I didn't like the way they were going to change it. So I came up with something different. And this is what you get."

    http://www.newsarama.com/comics/spoi...in-111118.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksun View Post
    Batwoman #3 it serves the story, it is later referenced as a important moment of their relationship. In catwaoman was out of place and time, no build.
    Quote Originally Posted by LostinFandom View Post
    Honestly, I was not thrilled by Batwoman having the sex with Maggie be told with interlacing with Bette getting beaten. But id did serve the story, showing Kate and Maggie ting serious fast and establishing Kate's universe. It was also drawn really pretty. The Catwoman sex scene was more indicative of the uneven plotting the book suffers from even if one could be more generous about it in the first issue.
    I agree with both of you. It was very disturbing, seeing it in conjunction with Bette getting beat up. However, it did serve the story; and, at least imo, didn't feel just thrown in there. So, I think there are two key parts that I look for: 1) does it fit and serve the story, and 2) is it well done. With Catwoman #1, the story was weak and the "sexiness" over-done, so it failed (imo) on both counts.
    Last edited by americanwonder; 12-29-2012 at 11:16 PM.
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  3. #333
    Glitter and Gold AlfredIslas's Avatar
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    I don't think sex scenes even need to serve the story at all. But Catwoman was just silly though. I honestly love sexy superheroes, I mean, if they're well written AND good to look at, what's the problem? However, Catwoman just was overdone. First, she's getting dressed, then she's jumping from windows with her boobs still out, then she's the sexy bartender murderer, and finally, she has sex with Bats. It was too much. None of these things are bad within itself for an issue of Catwoman but all of them together is stupid.

  4. #334
    Senior Member Bluebow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LostinFandom View Post
    Honestly, I was not thrilled by Batwoman having the sex with Maggie be told with interlacing with Bette getting beaten. But id did serve the story, showing Kate and Maggie ting serious fast and establishing Kate's universe. It was also drawn really pretty. The Catwoman sex scene was more indicative of the uneven plotting the book suffers from even if one could be more generous about it in the first issue.
    So if Kate and Maggie ever break up, Wonder Woman and Batwoman can hook up as long as it does not coincide with a close female relative getting beat up? Would anyone object to that?

  5. #335
    Needs more lesbian RandomFalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebow View Post
    So if Kate and Maggie ever break up, Wonder Woman and Batwoman can hook up as long as it does not coincide with a close female relative getting beat up? Would anyone object to that?
    If Wonder Woman and Batwoman were to canonically have sex then I would be very much okay with Bette Kane getting run over by an ice cream truck, getting wedged up in the back wheel and dragged several blocks before dropping out and being repeatedly beaten by tramps using their shoes.

    Sorry Bette.

  6. #336
    Senior Member Bluebow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandomFalls View Post
    If Wonder Woman and Batwoman were to canonically have sex then I would be very much okay with Bette Kane getting run over by an ice cream truck, getting wedged up in the back wheel and dragged several blocks before dropping out and being repeatedly beaten by tramps using their shoes.

    Sorry Bette.
    Vivid imagery! if it ever happens they should let you write that issue.

  7. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebow View Post
    So if Kate and Maggie ever break up, Wonder Woman and Batwoman can hook up as long as it does not coincide with a close female relative getting beat up? Would anyone object to that?
    Only if the moment is right. As hot as that could be, it wouldn't get rid of all the complexities being debated here.
    Last edited by LostinFandom; 12-30-2012 at 02:06 PM. Reason: "all" not "tall"

  8. #338
    Senior Member Bluebow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LostinFandom View Post
    Only if the moment is right. As hot as that could be, it wouldn't get rid of tall the complexities being debated here.
    I mentioned it because in the last few pages the Kate Maggie pairing seemed to provoke fewer objections than any other example of sex in comics, so I thought people might be open minded to the idea and it seems popular to at least two people so far.
    Last edited by Bluebow; 12-30-2012 at 01:43 PM.

  9. #339
    ❤ Walking with thee ❤ Ian Pressman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliseu Gouveia View Post
    Why not?
    Creativity should not be compartimentalised by outdated XIX century morality.
    If someone can come up with an interesting way to depict sex in superhero comics or french cuisine recipe books, I say go for it.

    Because atreactive adults in tights should never have sex?
    Because it's completely taken over the medium and it's a cheap way to get a reaction. Nineteenth century morality has little to do with it; respect for people without resorting to gross objectification does. I need neither Superman's bulging package nor Psylocke's vacuum sealed thong strap in order to enjoy a comic. It's distracting and it destroys the suspension of disbelief.

    Fetishism does not equal "adult" just like the word "fuck" doesn't make an M-rated video game "mature." Gratuitous overuse of language and skin for its own sake is as juvenile as a fart joke in home room.
    Last edited by Ian Pressman; 12-30-2012 at 02:13 PM.
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  10. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebow View Post
    I mentioned it because in the last few pages the Kate Maggie pairing seemed to provoke fewer objections than any other example of sex in comics, so I thought people might be open minded to the idea and it seems popular to at least two people so far.
    I get that. But the debate here, as with pretty much every debate about Wonder Woman, is about how to write a character who often is more symbol than character, largely because of how hard it is to distance her from WMM's original, why it is so much harder for her character than others from her era.

  11. #341
    U dont need my user title brettc1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandomFalls View Post
    If Wonder Woman and Batwoman were to canonically have sex then I would be very much okay with Bette Kane getting run over by an ice cream truck, getting wedged up in the back wheel and dragged several blocks before dropping out and being repeatedly beaten by tramps using their shoes.

    Sorry Bette.
    Is this supposed to be funny?
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  12. #342
    Senior Member Bluebow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LostinFandom View Post
    I get that. But the debate here, as with pretty much every debate about Wonder Woman, is about how to write a character who often is more symbol than character, largely because of how hard it is to distance her from WMM's original, why it is so much harder for her character than others from her era.
    I think Mary Marvel could have similar problems in that area.

  13. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daesim View Post
    Because it's completely taken over the medium and it's a cheap way to get a reaction. Nineteenth century morality has little to do with it; respect for people without resorting to gross objectification does. I need neither Superman's bulging package nor Psylocke's vacuum sealed thong strap in order to enjoy a comic. It's distracting and it destroys the suspension of disbelief.

    Fetishism does not equal "adult" just like the word "fuck" doesn't make an M-rated video game "mature." Gratuitous overuse of language and skin for its own sake is as juvenile as a fart joke in home room.
    Well I don´t find nudity (or hints of it) distracting in the least.
    The wonder thong distracts me because it's weird seeing a princess and representative dignitary from a 3,000 years old amazon civilization wearing an american flag-themed bathing suit, not because it's revealing.
    If we think about it, amazon garb SHOULD be revealing, it makes little sense for amazons to be ashamed of their own bodies.
    But I digress...
    I wouldn´t want to see nudity or explicit sex scenes in mainstream comics in general and WW in particular.
    That stuff' s best left for fanart and fanfic.

  14. #344
    Veteran Member Fate's Faith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    I have not seen the issue in question but if this were a tv show I coudl easily imagine the scene playing out in slow mo cutting back and forth between the lovers and the girl being beaten while the audio is some instrumental music track with lots of piano in it. The producers would explain that it is supposed to be a contrast between a moment of tenderness and intimacy and one of violence and abuse - that the idea was for the veiwer to see the attack on the victim as even more heinous because it is being shown in parallel to the love making.

    That might be the artisitc intent but I am not sure it works quite that way.
    I'm not at all bothered by the way it was done since I think that is the intent. I had imaged some audio during the scenes myself.
    Last edited by Gaelforce; 12-30-2012 at 08:06 PM. Reason: reply to deleted post

  15. #345
    CBR Mod/WW Section Mom Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Okey dokey, folks, let's not insult 'WW fandom' or other posters and we'll all start the New Year happier :)

    A number of messages and replies to them were deleted. Keep it nice, please.
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