Long Live the Legion! *SPOILERS*

**Fate's Faith** · 05-14-2012, 07:20 PM

I like the idea of Legion Lost jumping through the timestream trying to get home. That's sounds more lost to me than being exactly where they were going to start with. But that probably wouldn't improve the sales. Again, I think both titles are too safe. Really, when the cover says Timber Wolf lets loose why does it seem a mad three year old is more dangerous? Its a dynamic group but they don't seem to be desperate in any fashion when you consider they may never make it home and yet don't seem in that big a rush but worry about what their presence may do to the future. So... work harder. Timber Wolf getting cash is at least something along the lines they may have to consider.

As for the main title... also there doesn't seem to be anything happening and that's a little boring. Even though some things have happen you could have skipped those issues and still be up to date.

**paulski** · 05-14-2012, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by garion

Looked at the sales figures. Wow, it's not looking good for either title. Again, I don't care too much about Legion Lost but LoSH, the main title. It's not good.

THE LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES
03/2012: LoSH #7 -- 21,894 (- 6.6%)

LEGION LOST
03/2012: Legion Lost #7 -- 18,214 (- 6.3%)

Yeah, and that's my point. You can put out 2, 4, hell 6 Legion books if you want. But unless they're strong enough to survive on their own merits, readers - even some long-term Legion fans (like myself) - will stop buying them and they go away. And right now, I don't think either of these books is particularly great.

**Crisis** · 05-15-2012, 06:15 AM

not all the blacks in the dc universe in the 30th century lived on Marzal...only the descendants of escaped slaves from a ship wrecked slave ship. I do not know where that train of thought came from because it was never shown in the comics at all.

**Crisis** · 05-15-2012, 06:18 AM

i do not want keith to return to head writer no sir..uh uh

**garion** · 05-15-2012, 06:35 AM

i don't get the Keith at writer opposition. Why the dislike, can anyone explain?

**jdpinball** · 05-15-2012, 01:39 PM

I dropped Legion Lost after the 4-5th issue...frustrated with the whole time travel business....which will be erased the next time Earth 1, 2, prime, new, DCNU...next please.. is re-booted. I'm all for two monthly Legion books. Just keep it set in the future. You can't find a more creative plot device then sending a group back in time and stuck in the past?

**Fate's Faith** · 05-15-2012, 02:42 PM

Well, since I didn't see any other Legion thread, what about Legion Lost #9? Spoilers to follow...

Harvest has some connection to the future and has a time sphere. And Tellus's secret looks about to be revealed. I've said before The Culling event has actually improved Lost to me which has long been needed. And these revelations have my interest past this event. I do think the time sphere is in place if the title is cancelled (which I wouldn't be surprised) but I've no clue what Tellus could be up to. Interesting to note that even in this event, it seems there were too many Legionnaires to give everyone something meaningful to do in their own book. But it was nice to see one group see the need to get the 'innocents' to safety.

**dkdrum** · 05-15-2012, 07:45 PM

Hey everybody

I'm just starting to get back into comics after a few years away. I've been thinking about picking up Legion of Super Heroes and Legion Lost but want to know how they are.

This would be my first time reading anything LOSH related so would it be confusing to somebody like me?

**Flashpoint** · 05-15-2012, 07:53 PM

I read every issue of Legion Of Super-Heroes and I really enjoy it. And no, it's not confusing.

Every member has a caption box every issue that lists their code name, real name and their powers.

The art by Francis Portela is slick eye candy that's perfectly suited to the 31st Century sci-fi setting.

The relationships between characters have been easy to follow and the villains are clearly defined.

**Desaad** · 05-15-2012, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by garion

i don't get the Keith at writer opposition. Why the dislike, can anyone explain?

I love Giffen as a writer, on Legion more than anything but on pretty much anything...

That said, v4/5 Years Later is certainly one of the most divisive runs of anything, I think, criticized for radical ideas (Shvaughn as a man) and impenetrable execution. I personally view it as one of the very few post-Watchmen runs to really understand and at least attempt to fulfill the ambition of that project; Legion v4 didn't stand out because it was gritty - the whole of Marvel and DC were gritty during this period - it stood out because it was well thought out, it was smart, it was emotionally and conceptually complex, it was adult in manner rather than just blood.

Generally I hear that Giffen is too plot driven, that he makes his characters too witty, and that his ideas are a little too weird. I don't agree with any of it, but those seem to be the main complaints.

**The Adventurer** · 05-15-2012, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by Desaad

Generally I hear that Giffen is too plot driven, that he makes his characters too witty, and that his ideas are a little too weird. I don't agree with any of it, but those seem to be the main complaints.

Those are complaints? Those are all the things I look for in a great writer.

But then I loved 5-Years latter Legion (which I read for the first time last summer)

**garion** · 05-16-2012, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by Desaad

I love Giffen as a writer, on Legion more than anything but on pretty much anything...

That said, v4/5 Years Later is certainly one of the most divisive runs of anything, I think, criticized for radical ideas (Shvaughn as a man) and impenetrable execution. I personally view it as one of the very few post-Watchmen runs to really understand and at least attempt to fulfill the ambition of that project; Legion v4 didn't stand out because it was gritty - the whole of Marvel and DC were gritty during this period - it stood out because it was well thought out, it was smart, it was emotionally and conceptually complex, it was adult in manner rather than just blood.

Generally I hear that Giffen is too plot driven, that he makes his characters too witty, and that his ideas are a little too weird. I don't agree with any of it, but those seem to be the main complaints.

Thanks for that. I just wasn't getting why people are down on Giffen.

Different strokes and all that. I dug the Shvaughn as a man story. It was so out of left field and shocking. I can see how people (mostly due to religious influence) would be offended by it. But, I thought it was cool.

Plot Driven. Great.
Witty Characters. Great.
Weird ideas. Great. (altho the Shady cutting her finger off thing, maybe it wasn't a Keith thing but that was hard for me to understand... but it's cool in that it brings in different cultures and one has to respect that and thus it shows the reader how there is more to life than their vision of the world)

**Expletive Deleted** · 05-16-2012, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by Desaad

I love Giffen as a writer, on Legion more than anything but on pretty much anything...

That said, v4/5 Years Later is certainly one of the most divisive runs of anything, I think, criticized for radical ideas (Shvaughn as a man) and impenetrable execution. I personally view it as one of the very few post-Watchmen runs to really understand and at least attempt to fulfill the ambition of that project; Legion v4 didn't stand out because it was gritty - the whole of Marvel and DC were gritty during this period - it stood out because it was well thought out, it was smart, it was emotionally and conceptually complex, it was adult in manner rather than just blood.

Generally I hear that Giffen is too plot driven, that he makes his characters too witty, and that his ideas are a little too weird. I don't agree with any of it, but those seem to be the main complaints.

His dialogue, for all the wit, can be occasionally problematic. He's been known to be a little too fond of fictional slang and jargon, which is fun in moderation but can get real old real fast. There've also been times when he's gone so elliptical that it's almost gibberish.

There's a school of thought that he's almost always better with someone else scripting.

**ropeburn39** · 05-16-2012, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by garion

i don't get the Keith at writer opposition. Why the dislike, can anyone explain?

All his book sell so low they get cancelled. Seems like no one gave two craps about his books starting with the Reign in Hell limited series (one panel seeing Linda Danvers out of character and you'll know why) and it seems like all his fan(s) are on this message board. Oh sure, people on this site raved about his Doom Patrol (which i thought was gawd-awful and shows how much a hypocrite Giffen can be about killing characters) and his OMAC but when you look at the figures, it gives you the impression ONE person must have several accounts on this site to (either KG himself or a relative) to say how great his books are.

Giffen was a genius in the 80's, but much like John Byrne, his talent has left him. It would be a quick death for the LSH to hire Giffen again .

**Rakzo** · 05-16-2012, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by ropeburn39

Giffen was a genius in the 80's, but much like John Byrne, his talent has left him. It would be a quick death for the LSH to hire Giffen again .

Oh no, you did not compare Giffen to Byrne.

Speaking as a guy who totally loved Byrne's work on Uncanny X-Men, Fantastic Four and She-Hulk, I can still note that the decline in both his writing and art has become really obvious in the last decade (Especially after reading Trio).

However, Giffen's writing has become more polished in the last decade and even his art is much more refined than in his Legion years, is something that I hope to see again in any new title.