CBR: Wonder of Wonders - Dec 31, 2009

[Free-Man]

Storm is one of my favorite all time characters.

Her introduction, however, does have some disconcerting elements for me. Her origin is problematic, and one can't help but wince a little at the fact that she was given light blue eyes and platinum blonde hair. .

I've often wondered about stuff like that. For the the first time yesterday, I got to read Jack Kirby's Black Panther. I couldn't help but notice that Panther's nemesis Princess Zanda (who is described as being incredibly gorgeous) had big blue eyes and straight reddish hair.

While I think it's troubling to impose European standards of beauty upon minorities, I don't really think it's meant to be racist. I think of it the same way I think of anime cartoons that give Japanese characters green eyes and white hair. It's more an of aesthetic choice than a racial one.

[pointblizzy]

Hey guys Ive been feeling the same way about this Nubia Character for years. So much potential, but There's no dedication behind making her a Dominant character. I recently spoke with a good friend of mine who works for DC comics. Who told me that if I could come up with a solid version of The Nubia story, accompanied by good art that I may have the opportunity to start a new WW series with the freedom to Adjust the Nubia back story (even adjust her name a bit). Ive been working really hard on this and will have it complete pretty soon. I haven't posted any images on my site yet, but I will soon. Here is the site if you want to check out my art style and current film projects. I think that it would bring new life to WW comics. Keep you fingers crossed 4 me:)
http://7mages.com

[Flying Saucers Over Oz]

If anyone's interested, here's the Nubia/Wonder Woman doll commercial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OEzrfC6Nz4

I love the lovestruck-awestruck look on the little boy's face when he stares at the Wonder Woman doll at the beginning.

And really, one of the predominant problems with minority characters in most popular culture is that they were mostly created by middle-class white guys who meant well...

[TripleX]

I never, ever, EVER want it said that I'm racially sensitive after reading that obviously biased article. It was well written, but sometimes it's okay to give people the benefit of a doubt. Dude jumped to so many conclusions I almost heard wonder sound effects.

[TripleX]

I've often wondered about stuff like that. For the the first time yesterday, I got to read Jack Kirby's Black Panther. I couldn't help but notice that Panther's nemesis Princess Zanda (who is described as being incredibly gorgeous) had big blue eyes and straight reddish hair.

While I think it's troubling to impose European standards of beauty upon minorities, I don't really think it's meant to be racist. I think of it the same way I think of anime cartoons that give Japanese characters green eyes and white hair. It's more an of aesthetic choice than a racial one.

I don't see the racism either, I thought it was a way to mark her as a Mutant and differentiate her from other beautiful Black women.

[Mart]

I don't see the racism either, I thought it was a way to mark her as a Mutant and differentiate her from other beautiful Black women.

Yup, if whites in comics can have green hair or purple eyes, why can't black characters have white hair and blue eyes?

[Free-Man]

Yup, if whites in comics can have green hair or purple eyes, why can't black characters have white hair and blue eyes?

I don't at all subscribe to the way of thinking, but I've heard quite a few black fanboys who've gotten pissed off anytime a black character from Storm to Venus Dee Milo was given "European beauty standards".

Now I personally get annoyed with white-washing, like when artists give Vixen and Connor Hawke white skin and european facial features, but I don't really care about hair or eye color in most cases. I was fine with Thunder having dyed blonde hair while she was with the Outsiders.

[Phil Jimenez]

Tragically, I feel like the lone racist here -- who, despite being quite aware of her troubling origins, sees in Nubia terrific potential (I know, call me crazy -- or just a white imperialist (I often do!)).

Like many ethnic (i.e. non-white characters introduced at the time), I think Nubia's creation was well-intended, if executed in a particularly white, boy way, and, with such little exposure, never had the chance to develop/evolve in the way other characters (namely, the jive-talking Black Lightning) have. For better or worse, many, many ethnic characters were created in the same way, but the ones that succeeded (and have become fleshed out characters, and icons, in their way) have had decades of development to help them along the way.

I've just always felt the same way about Nubia. I can imagine her being pretty terrific, actually in 2010, even if she wasn't back in 1973 (at least, the imagery in my head appeals to me, for what little that's worth)...

[mattman]

I absolutely agree. I think Nubia has wonderful potential (pun intended). I don't think that her creators had negative intentions as heart when they created her, though yes they made some unfortunate choices. The same can be said of some creators today. Particularly some men who write female characters. I was watching an episode of the 90's animated Spider-Man today where they try and follow the "Secret Wars" storyline. I got my boyfriend to watch it with me and near the end he turns and asks "What's up with the Black Cat? She's either falling down, trapped or getting caught every two minutes." and he was right. We slow-mo'd the credits and all the writers were male. Males who put the "token female" hero in constant peril. So even though they may have thought that they were trying to be modern by including a female hero in the story, she was the one in danger and needing to be saved. Stereotypical? yes, Negative intention? I doubt it.

MattZ

[Peter Svensson]

I don't see the racism either, I thought it was a way to mark her as a Mutant and differentiate her from other beautiful Black women.

The big thing was that Storm's character design was originally for a character who was a were-cat, and thus there's some feline features that remained in the Cockrum and Byrne interpretations of the character, which later artists did away with.

[Zombipanda]

So, maybe it's not directly on topic, but.... Diana is supposed to be from an island nation of women who, for generations, hid from the rest of the world and the presence of every pantheon imaginable has already been elaborated on throughout the DCU. I kind of wonder how feasible it would be to introduce other "Wonder Women" that represent other cultural and religious stances, other islands of female warriors who have just done a much better job of hiding from the world than Themyscira have.

If there was, say, an island off the west coast of Africa that drew its patronage from the Yoruban pantheon, one hidden in the waters of Southeast Asia that drew on the presence of Buddhist spirits, one nested in the Dreamtime that drew on Aboriginal mythology, would that hurt or hinder the presence of non-white characters in comics? Would it feel too much like having the only Japanese character be named Samurai, or the only black character be named Black Vulcan?

[TripleX]

Tragically, I feel like the lone racist here -- who, despite being quite aware of her troubling origins, sees in Nubia terrific potential (I know, call me crazy -- or just a white imperialist (I often do!)).

Like many ethnic (i.e. non-white characters introduced at the time), I think Nubia's creation was well-intended, if executed in a particularly white, boy way, and, with such little exposure, never had the chance to develop/evolve in the way other characters (namely, the jive-talking Black Lightning) have. For better or worse, many, many ethnic characters were created in the same way, but the ones that succeeded (and have become fleshed out characters, and icons, in their way) have had decades of development to help them along the way.

I've just always felt the same way about Nubia. I can imagine her being pretty terrific, actually in 2010, even if she wasn't back in 1973 (at least, the imagery in my head appeals to me, for what little that's worth)...

I'm about to give y'all too much but I don't care. I LOVE being Black. I love it like sunshine and a cool breeze on a hot summer's day. I live in the hood and drive an elderly Cadillac with rims on it. I LOVE Hip-Hop and blast it out of 20 inch speakers and an amplifier, sometimes you can hear me coming from two blocks a way, my pants sag, I have dreads and a big @ss horse d*ck and my Moms doesn't understand why I dress like a thug. She says I wasn't raised that way and I wasn't. She's a Microbiologist and my Father was a Colonel in the Air Force. I went to boarding school where I had to wear a tie every day and summer camp every year for a thousand dollars a week. I've had every advantage and I've never been "underprivileged".

That said, I see nothing wrong with stereotypical comicbook characters. I AM a walking stereotype and I couldn't care less how the masses see me because I know who I am and where I came from.

When I'm presented with a character named "Nubia" or "Black Lightning" I assume they think the same way I do. It's an affirmation and I identify with them, which is exactly what their creators intended. I'm just happy to see them and I'll pick the motivations apart later.

[Atomcrush]

I'm about to give y'all too much but I don't care. I LOVE being Black. I love it like sunshine and a cool breeze on a hot summer's day. I live in the hood and drive an elderly Cadillac with rims on it. I LOVE Hip-Hop and blast it out of 20 inch speakers and an amplifier, sometimes you can hear me coming from two blocks a way, my pants sag, I have dreads and a big @ss horse d*ck and my Moms doesn't understand why I dress like a thug. She says I wasn't raised that way and I wasn't. She's a Microbiologist and my Father was a Colonel in the Air Force. I went to boarding school where I had to wear a tie every day and summer camp every year for a thousand dollars a week. I've had every advantage and I've never been "underprivileged".

That said, I see nothing wrong with stereotypical comicbook characters. I AM a walking stereotype and I couldn't care less how the masses see me because I know who I am and where I came from.

When I'm presented with a character named "Nubia" or "Black Lightning" I assume they think the same way I do. It's an affirmation and I identify with them, which is exactly what their creators intended. I'm just happy to see them and I'll pick the motivations apart later.

I wouldn't touch this with a black, ten foot long horse pole...

Okay maybe I will.

A) Just about everyone I know who is proud, self-confident, and secure doesnt feel a need to brag.

B) I'm trying to understand why you take every blooming thing in this (and the other Nubia thread) so personally. I get that it's racially sensitive, but other people are taking the time to present well-thought out perpectives, opinions, and ideas and you ride in here in your Cadillac essentially declaring that since you're black, and the character is black, your opinion is the only one that matters.

[Freakzeek]

I'm about to give y'all too much but I don't care. I LOVE being Black. I love it like sunshine and a cool breeze on a hot summer's day. I live in the hood and drive an elderly Cadillac with rims on it. I LOVE Hip-Hop and blast it out of 20 inch speakers and an amplifier, sometimes you can hear me coming from two blocks a way, my pants sag, I have dreads and a big @ss horse d*ck and my Moms doesn't understand why I dress like a thug. She says I wasn't raised that way and I wasn't. She's a Microbiologist and my Father was a Colonel in the Air Force. I went to boarding school where I had to wear a tie every day and summer camp every year for a thousand dollars a week. I've had every advantage and I've never been "underprivileged".

That said, I see nothing wrong with stereotypical comicbook characters. I AM a walking stereotype and I couldn't care less how the masses see me because I know who I am and where I came from.

When I'm presented with a character named "Nubia" or "Black Lightning" I assume they think the same way I do. It's an affirmation and I identify with them, which is exactly what their creators intended. I'm just happy to see them and I'll pick the motivations apart later.

TripleX you're my hero LMFAO God damn you put it on blast, much respect brah

[TripleX]

lol DAMN, as soon as I woke up knew I needed to edit that out but you quoted me so there's no point.