Doctor Doom Appreciation

[Iron Maiden]

That looks goofy enough to check out, even if I normally avoid Deadpool.

[dupersuper]

This needs to be written...

[tigerkaya]

When you guys read Dooms dialogue what voice do you use?

For me I use Simon Templeman
Wish Marvel could get Templeman back to be the voice of Doom again in the various Marvel cartoons.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi86yeXB9pI

[Iron Maiden]

I think of contemporary actors, Jeremy Irons would work...or possibly Alan Rickman.

I've made note of it in the Cast the Marvel Universe thread but there is an actor from days gone by that would have been perfect IMO. Herbert Lom is a Czech born actor who works mostly in British films. He was Captain Nemo in 1961's "Mysterious Island" and played the Phantom in Hammer's version of "The Phantom of the Opera". He was mostly known as a heavy but mostly he is known as Inspector Clousseau's boss in the Peter Sellers "Pink Panther" films. He just sounds right to me because he has an accent that is hard to place...not totally British but a hint of Eastern European.

[Zolton]

When you guys read Dooms dialogue what voice do you use?

For me I use Simon Templeman
Wish Marvel could get Templeman back to be the voice of Doom again in the various Marvel cartoons.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi86yeXB9pI

Simon has always been Doom for me as well. Same as the late Tony Jay as Galactus from the same cartoon. Flawless.

[nomadic writer]

English voice actors for Doom never quite fully work for me, probably because I'm a Brit myself. I remember a John Byrne issue where someone referred to Doom as sounding like Arnold Schwarzenegger; I definitely wouldn't want to take that too literally, but it certainly suggests he has quite a noticable Latverian accent. I guess German/Hungarian/some form of Eastern European would be the most authentic substitute, though I'm blanking on any appropriate actors who sound Doomy enough.

[Iron Maiden]

With Mother's Day coming to a close, it seems a good a time as any to discuss Cynthia Von Doom. Unnamed in her first mention in FF annual #2, she would later play a pivotal role in the graphic novel Doctor Strange/Doctor Doom: Triumph and Torment. But her misguided attempt to free her people from persecution has had a far reaching effect on the MU. Probably the only person who knows the most about the enigmatic Mme von Doom is Boris, friend of Werner Von Doom. And I don't think he's talking to anyone about it. He keeps Doom's confidences fairly well but he is the person tells the tale of Cynthia's tragic end to Doctor Strange.






We know very little about her except that she was a member of the Zefiro tribe, married Werner von Doom and gave birth to their only child. But what about Cynthia herself? What was her maiden name and who were her parents? Nothing much has been written about any other relatives (and let's not even talk about Doom's cousin the dentist!) except there was mention of a grandfather in Doom 2099. As I recall, he made marionettes and inspired a young Victor to later explore the field of robotics. But whether or not this was the maternal or paternal grandfather is unknown. It is clear that for a time certain aspects of her death was not told to Victor. Early stories Doom will recount that she died when he was an infant but later stories push it back to a time when he was a bit older, at least old enough to speak at her gravesite in Books of Doom. Even the site of her burial was kept hidden for a time since the tribe feared retribution from the Baron's men and had to flee in haste. Even more peculiar, Victor does not seem to know what happened to his father's body after he died. He knows only that soldiers of the baron took the body away when the came to the camp to look for him. But as for his mother, she was reburied and placed in a crypt beneath Castle Doom.




If one could say anything about Victor's parents it is that Werner Von Doom was the pacifist of the two. He was well known in Latveria as a healer and his reputation brought him to the attention of the baron when his wife was dying. When Doom meets with Morgana Le Fey in IM #150, he describes his mother as "a great sorceress and for a time the leader of our gypsy tribe. She ruled with a superbly efficient blend of power and compassion". If this is true, it may explain why she was seen as a prisoner in a dungeon in a flashback in Blade #2. Either she was arrested for witchcraft or perhaps some kind of attempt at advocacy for her people landed her in prison where Doom sends Blade back through time to help secure her release. Also notable is that even while pregnant, she's outnumbered and fighting off the vampires that have overrun the prison. "So much like your mother", his father says to Victor as they flee for lives. But Werner feared he was too much so. It also could point to why Victor rarely makes mention of him as compared to his mother. He saw that his way only lead to them being run off from village to village and never having a homeland. He would never admit to it but could it be that Doom saw his father as a bit of a failure? He could not save Cynthia from her fate nor his own.

[DoomScribe]

It's a shame that this past hasn't been explored more in the comics. There are probably some great stories about Doom's parents and ancestors.

There have been some throwaway lines here and there. Like where did the surname "Von Doom" come from? Personally I dislike the thought of Victor as descended from royalty, I like it better that he's come so far from so wretched a background all on his own. But, perhaps a distant ancestor was royal blood, ousted by the Draasen's for fraternizing with a gypsy woman?

I also don't think that Werner Von Doom is looked down upon by Victor. Yes, he was more the pacifist (or pragmatist), but he was still a highly respected healer and leader of the tribe. Victor spent half his adult life seeking vengeance for the wrongful death of his parents, I think that meant Werner as well as Cynthia. I do wonder if Werner, having lived through the horrors of WWII (and/or the rise of Soviet communism, whichever timeline Marvel chooses to follow), may have had enough of fighting and war and its horrors.

Victor has also shown some strong loyalty to his gypsy brethren, particulary poor Boris, who's been a faithful servant/ally/confidant all these years. In Doom 2099, this was explored more fully than in any other title, and it was good to see that Doom really acknowledged his people and where he came from.

Thanks for the scans, IM, and great topic.

[nomadic writer]

I also don't think that Werner Von Doom is looked down upon by Victor. Yes, he was more the pacifist (or pragmatist), but he was still a highly respected healer and leader of the tribe. Victor spent half his adult life seeking vengeance for the wrongful death of his parents, I think that meant Werner as well as Cynthia.

We really don't see enough about how Doom was affected by his father's death. FF #278 suggests he was in mourning for an entire year before he even went through his father's things and found Cynthia's magical stuff. And there's a Power Pack issue where Typhoid Mary going outside his orders to try and kill the kids' father causes Doom to freak out about how devastating it is to have your father killed. (Although it might be a Doombot here, given how easily he shares his backstory with Typhoid Mary.)




(Given what he says there about how he could have taken the other path and become a healer instead, I found it really interesting that in Avengers: Children's Crusade he's shown using some healing magic, albeit with ulterior motives, since that's traditionally "light side" magic. Makes me wonder if he's been expanding his magical studies now that the driving focus on freeing his mother is gone.)

[Ace Grayson]

To doom or not to doom?

[Nefarius]

I liked that story,but for Christ's sake,i expected Doom executing Typhoid Mary for her insults.I expect the next day would be something like this.

**Phone call at Kingpin's office***

Kingpin:Yes?

Dr Doom:I think you need a new henchgirl,Fisk.

Kingpin:What?I mean...why?

Dr Doom:I killed her and put her head on a stick in an Latverian square.I found her guilty of insulting Doom by using his holy parents as a mean to this.A crime with the penalty of death!!!

Kingpin:Jesus Doctor!!You know how difficult is to find a henchgirl with powers.Let's not forger that you ruined my plans(or continuity as the higher force of this universe would call).

Dr Doom:Irrevelant.Doom has his own editor and can repair this.Yours problem criminal.***end phone call***

Kingpin's calls Bullseye

Kingpin:Bullseye,i have a new target for you.

Bullseye:Great Willy.Who's this time.A girlfriend of DD,a rival crime boss or a reporter who is too curious for his own good.

Kingpin:Dr Doom.

Bullseye:That's it.Where i can give my resignation.You really lost it Willy.I am a sociopath,but not a stupid or suicidical one.

[Iron Maiden]

That's how the prologue of that Power Pack story it should have played out Nefarius. I should try and find that back issue though.

It's a shame that this past hasn't been explored more in the comics. There are probably some great stories about Doom's parents and ancestors.

There have been some throwaway lines here and there. Like where did the surname "Von Doom" come from? Personally I dislike the thought of Victor as descended from royalty, I like it better that he's come so far from so wretched a background all on his own. But, perhaps a distant ancestor was royal blood, ousted by the Draasen's for fraternizing with a gypsy woman?

I also don't think that Werner Von Doom is looked down upon by Victor. Yes, he was more the pacifist (or pragmatist), but he was still a highly respected healer and leader of the tribe. Victor spent half his adult life seeking vengeance for the wrongful death of his parents, I think that meant Werner as well as Cynthia. I do wonder if Werner, having lived through the horrors of WWII (and/or the rise of Soviet communism, whichever timeline Marvel chooses to follow), may have had enough of fighting and war and its horrors.

Victor has also shown some strong loyalty to his gypsy brethren, particulary poor Boris, who's been a faithful servant/ally/confidant all these years. In Doom 2099, this was explored more fully than in any other title, and it was good to see that Doom really acknowledged his people and where he came from.

Thanks for the scans, IM, and great topic.

Thanks...I've been meaning to post about this because I find it a subject worth exploring. I was reaching to come up with an explanation as to why of the few stories mentioning Victor's parents the focus is mostly on his mother. She barely gets a mention even in Lee's origin story and it seems like she was always meant to be a bit of a mystery. Yet this is the aspect that Gerry Conway picked to explore in his Doom story in Astonishing Tales.

Other than the scans above, I can't think of any other time when Doom expresses the same sense of loss about his father. I think I recall reading once orphans have such conflicting emotions like feelings of guilt, abandonment and anger about their plight. Books of Doom depicts almost an estrangement period and neither of them talk about Cynthia. That probably didn't help that they didn't talk about their grief even to each other.

And you're right about Doom 2099. I thought it was great that John F. Moore went that route and had him go to the Zefiro as his little group of insurgents. Fortune was a fave of mine and I was glad to see she survived the decimation of Latveria.

[DoomScribe]

Speaking of characterization, I think this has always been one of my most favorite Doctor Doom soliloquies. It's from the Marvel Treasury Edition #28: Superman and Spider-man. (Scans aren't the best, pages are big so it has to be pieced together, plus it's looking a little yellowed these days).




This was script and story by Jim Shooter and Marv Wolfman, with pencils by John Buscema (who captured a gloriously classic Doctor Doom).

[nomadic writer]

Speaking of characterization, I think this has always been one of my most favorite Doctor Doom soliloquies.

I love that Doom, pretty much alone of all supervillains, has an entirely canonical reason for making long dramatic speeches to himself. Somebody really ought to try and break into his vault of recordings some day and listen to what he's got stored there.

While we're talking of great characterisation, I just got my hands on a copy of Dwayne McDuffie's Fantastic Four Special, and wow. Such a fascinating take on Reed and Doom's relationship. Not only does Reed finally get a plausible reason for sneaking into Victor's private college room and going through his stuff, but he actually acknowledges outright how his actions contributed to Victor refusing to listen. (It has bugged me for so long that the blame for Victor kicking him out without taking his advice was always placed solely on Doom's pride, never at all on the way Reed went about it.)

The whole concept of Rapprochment Day is fascinating. I kind of like the idea that Doom has now got over the past enough that he can manage being civil to Reed one day a year. (Hey, if that rate of emotional recovery holds, it'll only be another 7000 years before he's entirely over it! ) Plus it kills me that Doom doesn't just make a gesture towards Reed, no, he has to create an entire national holiday based around gestures of rapprochment. Although, to be fair to him, it is a pretty big deal. I love that he offers Reed a tour of the dungeons and Reed points out that he's seen them.

I also love that Reed, despite everything, refuses to walk away from even a tiny chance that Doom might be genuinely trying to make amends. The reveal of what it's all about at the end is just amazing. I just wish it could have been an actual Fantastic Four issue instead of a one-shot special; it's confirmed as being in-continuity by F4 #551, but I'm still not sure anybody's going to pay it that much attention. I'd love to see Reed and Doom meet up again for Rapprochment Day another year. It's just sad that McDuffie will never get the chance to write it now.

Although I guess it does kind of lead into Hickman's FF, where oddly enough Reed is the member of the team who manages the most civil working relationship with Doom now.

[Iron Maiden]

Speaking of characterization, I think this has always been one of my most favorite Doctor Doom soliloquies. It's from the Marvel Treasury Edition #28: Superman and Spider-man. (Scans aren't the best, pages are big so it has to be pieced together, plus it's looking a little yellowed these days).

This was script and story by Jim Shooter and Marv Wolfman, with pencils by John Buscema (who captured a gloriously classic Doctor Doom).

Buscema did some great work for Marvel and his Doom was one of the best of the Silver Age. I'd have to say between him, Jack Kirby and Gene Colan I would have a hard time deciding which one I liked the best. It's been a long time since I read that and I forgot that scene. Thanks for posting that, DS! I kind of miss that Doom, the one that projected the air of confidence when in the presence of others but hid his true feelings from the rest of the world.