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  1. #1
    Mild-Mannered Reporter
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    Default CBR: When Words Collide - Nov 30, 2009

    As the end of the decade fast approaches, Tim reflects on Frank Miller's apocalyptic "Dark Knight Strikes Again" and Grant Morrison's also-apocalyptic "Final Crisis," and explains why one is so much better than the other.


    Full article here.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Trey's Avatar
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    Great Analysis.

    And yes I do have DKSA in my top 10 not to say top 20. Granted I don't read any of the "real life drama stories", but I don't think things like Blankets, Box Office Poison compare to the more "epic" visceral works of the decade.

    I also have Final Crisis and Morrison's Batman run in my top 10. These 2 stories were amazing reading them monthly. I've never anticipated comics like I did for RIP and Final Crisis.

    I read DKSA, collected, about 3-4 years ago and instantly loved it. Better than DKR.

    Can't wait to see your list.
    "Calm down, call Batman." - Greg Capullo

  3. #3
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    Interesting read, but good God almighty is Frank Miller's work ugly. I can respect that he is master of his field, but man oh man his drawings look awful. He makes Igor Kordley look like Frank Quitely, and Rob Liefeld look like JH Williams III.

    Now All-Star Batman and Robin, the Boy Wonder? Crazy, insane, full-throttle Frank Miller with some great Jim Lee artwork. Every time it comes out, its an event, and I love it.

  4. #4

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    Hahaha, I love that the guy that has a Quitely avatar is calling Miller's work ugly. They're both pretty awful to look at in terms of... well, whatever it is that Jim Lee fits into, which I actually hate a lot.

  5. #5
    Ben L FunkyGreenJerusalem's Avatar
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    I've found both of Miller's recent Batman series, this and All Star, read much better than the criticisms when they were coming out would have you believe.

    In fact, they may have helped - by reducing expectation to an all time low, I found both to be pleasant surprises.

    I don't think I liked DKSA as much as Tim did, but I didn't think it was the abomination it was being called when it was released.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam K View Post
    Hahaha, I love that the guy that has a Quitely avatar is calling Miller's work ugly .
    Frank Quitely is the greatest comic artist working today. His ability to express movement and kinetic actions is unparalleled. His work is meticulously detailed, innovative, and inventive. His characters feel like real people, their clothes have weight and girth. His economy throughout his panels is amazing, and combined with the supercompression of Morrison, they're the greatest creative team in comic history.

    Quite Frankly, comparing him to other artists not named JH Williams III is pretty unfair.

  7. #7

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    I can't believe someone just typed that out.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickFury90 View Post
    Frank Quitely is the greatest comic artist working today. His ability to express movement and kinetic actions is unparalleled. His work is meticulously detailed, innovative, and inventive. His characters feel like real people, their clothes have weight and girth. His economy throughout his panels is amazing, and combined with the supercompression of Morrison, they're the greatest creative team in comic history.

    Quite Frankly, comparing him to other artists not named JH Williams III is pretty unfair.

    It is hilarious.

    Millers stuff can be really ugly sometimes, but so does Quitely's. Their art is ugly, but it is what is the message the art conveys that is important.

    Look at Jim Lee. There is no depth to his artwork. He draws the same way he drew when he first started. He is not an artist, he is an illustrator.

    Look at Jose Munoz. Probably one of the most influential modern comic book artists. His artwork isn't pretty by any aesthetic level, but you can't deny Jose Munoz is one of the greatest comic artists of all time.

    Frank Miller and Frank Quitely work on those levels. Quitely draws ass ugly panels sometimes, but its the storytelling that makes him amazing. Quietly isn't innovative by any standard. He draws like the crippled mutant of Brian Bolland. This is not a bad thing however. Everything you praise Quitely for was something that Bolland really brought to the table. Quitely is a fine illustrator, but is a great cartoonist.

    And the fact that the only artist you seem to name draw for DC comics tells me that your not necessarily familiar with the pantheon of great comic book artist past the world of superheroes. J.H. Williams III and Quietly are great, but calling Quietly detailed, innovative, and inventive while criticizing Frank Miller is kind of odd. Frank Miller was breaking doors down so people like Quitely could work at the big two without conforming past the point where their art is simply not theirs.

    Your free not to like the guy or the art, but its hard to deny his influence. In an where popular creators are afraid to change their styles to evolve, Frank Miller quite simply doesn't give a fuck. I commend him for it.

    Plus Frank Miller has written two of the greatest Batman stories of all time and the greatest Daredevil story of all time. I think he deserves some kind of props.

  9. #9
    Ben L FunkyGreenJerusalem's Avatar
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    Quitely's art is ugly???

    Shwa???

    Give me some context here... what do you consider to be 'not ugly'?

    Like is this an aberration in your taste, or do you think Paul Pope is also ugly?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyGreenJerusalem View Post
    Quitely's art is ugly???

    Shwa???

    Give me some context here... what do you consider to be 'not ugly'?

    Like is this an aberration in your taste, or do you think Paul Pope is also ugly?
    He has a Philip Bond avatar, so he's not completely insane.

    Quote Originally Posted by DevynRodriguez View Post
    It is hilarious.

    Millers stuff can be really ugly sometimes, but so does Quitely's. Their art is ugly, but it is what is the message the art conveys that is important.

    Look at Jim Lee. There is no depth to his artwork. He draws the same way he drew when he first started. He is not an artist, he is an illustrator.

    Look at Jose Munoz. Probably one of the most influential modern comic book artists. His artwork isn't pretty by any aesthetic level, but you can't deny Jose Munoz is one of the greatest comic artists of all time.

    Frank Miller and Frank Quitely work on those levels. Quitely draws ass ugly panels sometimes, but its the storytelling that makes him amazing. Quietly isn't innovative by any standard. He draws like the crippled mutant of Brian Bolland. This is not a bad thing however. Everything you praise Quitely for was something that Bolland really brought to the table. Quitely is a fine illustrator, but is a great cartoonist.
    I can see some similarities in Quitely from Bolland, but not outright cribbing or a poor man's version.

    Quote Originally Posted by DevynRodriguez View Post
    And the fact that the only artist you seem to name draw for DC comics tells me that your not necessarily familiar with the pantheon of great comic book artist past the world of superheroes.
    I make no apologies for what I like. I'm an unashamed superhero fanatic. Now that doesn't mean I haven't read Sandman/Preacher/various Hellblazer/Love and Rockets/etc, but in my mind only two artists come up in my head when I think of the best artists in the business, and thats Quitely and Williams III.

    Quote Originally Posted by DevynRodriguez View Post
    J.H. Williams III and Quietly are great, but calling Quietly detailed, innovative, and inventive while criticizing Frank Miller is kind of odd. Frank Miller was breaking doors down so people like Quitely could work at the big two without conforming past the point where their art is simply not theirs.
    Again, I respect that he's a master of the art form of comics, but I hate, hate, HATE looking at it, to the point where I don't want to read the story(which happens very rarely).

    Quote Originally Posted by DevynRodriguez View Post
    Plus Frank Miller has written two of the greatest Batman stories of all time and the greatest Daredevil story of all time. I think he deserves some kind of props.
    Writing =/= artwrok, and Batman: Year One/Daredevil Born Again are great because the masterful work of David Mazzucchelli.

  11. #11
    Ben L FunkyGreenJerusalem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickFury90 View Post
    He has a Philip Bond avatar, so he's not completely insane.
    That's just making it mess with my head even more!
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    Junior Member Mike O's Avatar
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    Dark Knight Strikes Again works for me because it's very similar to The Dark Knight Returns, but replaces the cold war with the medias assault on our everyday lives (something the Dark Knight Returns did as well to a lesser extent). Instead of a story about two super powers inching closer and closer to mutual annihilation to people becoming more and more complacent and willing to believe whatever their televisions tell them, which of course is much more timely now than it was in the late 80's.

  13. #13

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    First, let's stop saying "ugly." That word weirds me out with repetition.

    For the sake of it though, one more time: Yes, I do think of Paul Pope's art as ugly shit. I feel the same about Chaykin, Miller, Quitely, and most Kirby. Those are also all dudes that would make it into my top 10 artists. "Ugly," though obviously loaded with negative connotation, hardly means the same thing as "bad," and in the cases of who I mentioned, it doesn't matter because it's still cool, energetic, and exciting to look at while at the same time, functioning perfectly well as a manner of storytelling.

  14. #14
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    *ClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClap*

    Very, very nice.

    Man, this takes me back: The DKSA wars are the first thing I remember about CBR. (Us Pro-Sider-ers totally won.)
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickFury90 View Post
    Frank Quitely is the greatest comic artist working today. His ability to express movement and kinetic actions is unparalleled. His work is meticulously detailed, innovative, and inventive. His characters feel like real people, their clothes have weight and girth. His economy throughout his panels is amazing, and combined with the supercompression of Morrison, they're the greatest creative team in comic history.

    Quite Frankly, comparing him to other artists not named JH Williams III is pretty unfair.
    I agree with this guy.

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