CBR: When Words Collide - Nov 30, 2009

[CBR News]

As the end of the decade fast approaches, Tim reflects on Frank Miller's apocalyptic "Dark Knight Strikes Again" and Grant Morrison's also-apocalyptic "Final Crisis," and explains why one is so much better than the other.


Full article here.

[Trey]

Great Analysis.

And yes I do have DKSA in my top 10 not to say top 20. Granted I don't read any of the "real life drama stories", but I don't think things like Blankets, Box Office Poison compare to the more "epic" visceral works of the decade.

I also have Final Crisis and Morrison's Batman run in my top 10. These 2 stories were amazing reading them monthly. I've never anticipated comics like I did for RIP and Final Crisis.

I read DKSA, collected, about 3-4 years ago and instantly loved it. Better than DKR.

Can't wait to see your list.

[NickFury90]

Interesting read, but good God almighty is Frank Miller's work ugly. I can respect that he is master of his field, but man oh man his drawings look awful. He makes Igor Kordley look like Frank Quitely, and Rob Liefeld look like JH Williams III.

Now All-Star Batman and Robin, the Boy Wonder? Crazy, insane, full-throttle Frank Miller with some great Jim Lee artwork. Every time it comes out, its an event, and I love it.

[Adam K]

Hahaha, I love that the guy that has a Quitely avatar is calling Miller's work ugly. They're both pretty awful to look at in terms of... well, whatever it is that Jim Lee fits into, which I actually hate a lot.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

I've found both of Miller's recent Batman series, this and All Star, read much better than the criticisms when they were coming out would have you believe.

In fact, they may have helped - by reducing expectation to an all time low, I found both to be pleasant surprises.

I don't think I liked DKSA as much as Tim did, but I didn't think it was the abomination it was being called when it was released.

[NickFury90]

Hahaha, I love that the guy that has a Quitely avatar is calling Miller's work ugly .

Frank Quitely is the greatest comic artist working today. His ability to express movement and kinetic actions is unparalleled. His work is meticulously detailed, innovative, and inventive. His characters feel like real people, their clothes have weight and girth. His economy throughout his panels is amazing, and combined with the supercompression of Morrison, they're the greatest creative team in comic history.

Quite Frankly, comparing him to other artists not named JH Williams III is pretty unfair.

[Adam K]

I can't believe someone just typed that out.

[DevynRodriguez]

Frank Quitely is the greatest comic artist working today. His ability to express movement and kinetic actions is unparalleled. His work is meticulously detailed, innovative, and inventive. His characters feel like real people, their clothes have weight and girth. His economy throughout his panels is amazing, and combined with the supercompression of Morrison, they're the greatest creative team in comic history.

Quite Frankly, comparing him to other artists not named JH Williams III is pretty unfair.

It is hilarious.

Millers stuff can be really ugly sometimes, but so does Quitely's. Their art is ugly, but it is what is the message the art conveys that is important.

Look at Jim Lee. There is no depth to his artwork. He draws the same way he drew when he first started. He is not an artist, he is an illustrator.

Look at Jose Munoz. Probably one of the most influential modern comic book artists. His artwork isn't pretty by any aesthetic level, but you can't deny Jose Munoz is one of the greatest comic artists of all time.

Frank Miller and Frank Quitely work on those levels. Quitely draws ass ugly panels sometimes, but its the storytelling that makes him amazing. Quietly isn't innovative by any standard. He draws like the crippled mutant of Brian Bolland. This is not a bad thing however. Everything you praise Quitely for was something that Bolland really brought to the table. Quitely is a fine illustrator, but is a great cartoonist.

And the fact that the only artist you seem to name draw for DC comics tells me that your not necessarily familiar with the pantheon of great comic book artist past the world of superheroes. J.H. Williams III and Quietly are great, but calling Quietly detailed, innovative, and inventive while criticizing Frank Miller is kind of odd. Frank Miller was breaking doors down so people like Quitely could work at the big two without conforming past the point where their art is simply not theirs.

Your free not to like the guy or the art, but its hard to deny his influence. In an where popular creators are afraid to change their styles to evolve, Frank Miller quite simply doesn't give a fuck. I commend him for it.

Plus Frank Miller has written two of the greatest Batman stories of all time and the greatest Daredevil story of all time. I think he deserves some kind of props.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Quitely's art is ugly???

Shwa???

Give me some context here... what do you consider to be 'not ugly'?

Like is this an aberration in your taste, or do you think Paul Pope is also ugly?

[Mike O]

Dark Knight Strikes Again works for me because it's very similar to The Dark Knight Returns, but replaces the cold war with the medias assault on our everyday lives (something the Dark Knight Returns did as well to a lesser extent). Instead of a story about two super powers inching closer and closer to mutual annihilation to people becoming more and more complacent and willing to believe whatever their televisions tell them, which of course is much more timely now than it was in the late 80's.

[krushjudgement]

Frank Quitely is the greatest comic artist working today. His ability to express movement and kinetic actions is unparalleled. His work is meticulously detailed, innovative, and inventive. His characters feel like real people, their clothes have weight and girth. His economy throughout his panels is amazing, and combined with the supercompression of Morrison, they're the greatest creative team in comic history.

Quite Frankly, comparing him to other artists not named JH Williams III is pretty unfair.

I agree with this guy.

[krushjudgement]

You know, I can't get into either of these books.

I collected all the Final Crisis stuff and waited until it was done. Then I read Seven Soldiers of Victory first- and I loved it! Then I started digging into FC and found myself confused and annoyed. I finished it and gave all the issues away.

And really I love Grant Morrison!

Maybe I'll get the trade and give it another go.

As far as DKSA goes, are we sure that Frank Miller wasn't just phoning this one in for a paycheck? Was it really that intentionally deep? Maybe I'm not as smart as you guys but it just didn't seem like a quality piece of work. I'm all for experimental and interesting (hell, I love the films of John Casevettes) but DKSA just left me feeling empty and used.

Seriously, your article seemed more well written than Miller's existential vomit.

[ultraaman]

I didn't read The Dark Knight Returns until 1998, long after its cutting edge had been dulled, and I am a confessed Morrison megafan so my perspective on both DKSA and FC are skewed.

That being said, both stories are the biggest piles of drek I've read in almost 30 years of comic collecting. The DKSA was a bloated, derivative sequel with nothing to say. FC was a 12-issue maxi-series crammed into 7 issues that had so much to say that it became jibberish.

And don't even get me started on the art. Frank so phoned in that work; and I have never been a fan of J.G's mud. I have no idea what Didio(t) sees in him but Doug should have drawn the entire thing.

[lead sharp]

I feel like I'm being asked to choose between watching Miller masturbate himself or Morrison masturbate the DCU.

The results are the same though, wipe up and feel strangely guilty about enjoying it but deeply unfulfilled afterwards.

[TimothyCallahan]

I would put Quitely, Miller, and J. H. Williams III in my Top 5 all-time artists, probably.

Sienkiewicz and Mazzuchelli might be the other two.

Steve Rude and Howard Chaykin in contention.

Shit, I need to do a WWC on this topic!