Avengers by Brian Michael Bendis: What is your verdict?

[Petes12]

And the retcon about life being created on Earth is contrived nonsense.

Didn't say they were all winners.

[strathcona]

1) because you haven't read his best work

2) because you care waaaaay too much about continuity. It'd be one thing if you said you didn't like the way he writes character interactions, or if you don't care for his pacing. But your only real complaint has been 'omg scarlet witch heelfaceturned! automatically shit writer 4ever!'

No, I have other problems too... but this is one that is a technical part of his writing, and is, regardless of what others may say, a FACT. It is a FACT that he ignores characterization and continuity.

If I was to say he is a bad writer because of character interaction or scripting, that would be opinion.

Either way, he is a poor writer from everything I have seen. Even if his other stuff is the best writing in history, it doesn't change that what he wrote in Disassembled was bad writing.

[Nomads1]

I'm not reading 30 pages or whatever this thread is.

.

Yaeh, Bendis didn't want to bothered to read the issues of Avengers that came before his run. I can see why you like him so much.

Peace

[Nomads1]

Yes, every writer forgets previous characterization and continuity.

Where's the proof you like so much to ask others to provide for their statements? Can't have it both ways, pal.

Peace

[Mikey Brown]

No, no they don't. Stop being an apologist. Just accept the facts and move on.

Sorry but they do. How many times has Ed Brubaker mentioned and followed Robert Kirkman or Mark Waid's run on Captain America? How many times has Matt Fraction mentioned or followed stuff from Dan Jurgens on Thor? How many times has Jason Arron mentioned and followed Warren Ellis or Jeph Loeb or Rucka's run on Wolverine?

No character has an actual voice, they have a blueprint for writers to follow because every writer's voice is going to be different. Arron's Wolverine is going to sound different than Rucka's or Ellis's or Bendis's or Millar's or etc, etc, it's up to us as the reader to choose which one we enjoy. You guys don't enjoy Bendis and that's okay, but it is not a FACT. Not being an apologist, being a realist.

[Mikey Brown]

Apples and oranges. Both have different strengths and weaknesses as writers. I also do believe that Bendis enjoys a great deal more editorial freedom than Johns.

Peace

Wait, seriously? John's is a top dog at DC now, he is editorial along with Lee and Didio. I think they all have editors to deal with, I don't think one writer or another has it easier than others. But I'm sure there are people here who won't believe this even though they've never worked in comics. Its all a big CONSPIRACY!!!

[Mikey Brown]

Yaeh, Bendis didn't want to bothered to read the issues of Avengers that came before his run. I can see why you like him so much.

Peace

Well he obviously did read and follow previous continuity, you and a few others just didn't like his direction.

[strathcona]

Sorry but they do. How many times has Ed Brubaker mentioned and followed Robert Kirkman or Mark Waid's run on Captain America? How many times has Matt Fraction mentioned or followed stuff from Dan Jurgens on Thor? How many times has Jason Arron mentioned and followed Warren Ellis or Jeph Loeb or Rucka's run on Wolverine?

There's a difference between not referencing something, and out & out contradicting something.

No character has an actual voice, they have a blueprint for writers to follow because every writer's voice is going to be different. Arron's Wolverine is going to sound different than Rucka's or Ellis's or Bendis's or Millar's or etc, etc, it's up to us as the reader to choose which one we enjoy. You guys don't enjoy Bendis and that's okay, but it is not a FACT. Not being an apologist, being a realist.

I will agree with this. But certain things are kept within certain levels. You are not going to see Aaron's Wolverine start spouting physics equations for example... but you will get Bendis's Dr. Strange quipping like Spider-Man or saying things like 'cool' (these are not actual examples)... things that are equally outside the normal voice for the character as the Wolverine example I gave.

[SomeBodyAtCBR]

Yes, every writer forgets previous characterization and continuity.

Can you seriously say this with a straight face? You're spitting in the faces of the Jim McCanns and the Dan Slotts who utilize past continuity and thread it into their own stories.

[Nomads1]

Wait, seriously? John's is a top dog at DC now, he is editorial along with Lee and Didio. I think they all have editors to deal with, I don't think one writer or another has it easier than others. But I'm sure there are people here who won't believe this even though they've never worked in comics. Its all a big CONSPIRACY!!!

Apples and oranges. Both have different strengths and weaknesses as writers. I also do believe that Bendis enjoys a great deal more editorial freedom than Johns.

I may be wrong. However, despite your conspiracy theories, DC has always enjoyed a much bigger corporate structure than Marvel. Not going to argue post-Disney. Don't have enough evidence to that. But before? You bet.

Peace

[Nomads1]

Well he obviously did read and follow previous continuity, you and a few others just didn't like his direction.

Yes. Didn't like direction of "ignoring everything I read and do it my way." Bendis is no Sinatra.
Peace

[tigerkaya]

Let me ask the Bendis fans, do you deny the fact that Bendis when it comes down to execution in story he needs other writers to clear his mess. Examples, Gage explaining the symbiote satellite in Spider-man/Fantastic Four, Avengers Initiative redeeming Tigra, Heinberg redeeming Scarlet Witch in Avengers Academy, Jim McCann explaining the motivation of WHY Hawkeye wears the Ronin outfit in New Avengers Reunion. Because lets be honest its pretty lazy when you need other writers to fix your problems.

[TheDonAbides]

Let me ask the Bendis fans, do you deny the fact that Bendis when it comes down to execution in story he needs other writers to clear his mess. Examples, Gage explaining the symbiote satellite in Spider-man/Fantastic Four, Avengers Initiative redeeming Tigra, Heinberg redeeming Scarlet Witch in Avengers Academy, Jim McCann explaining the motivation of WHY Hawkeye wears the Ronin outfit in New Avengers Reunion. Because lets be honest its pretty lazy when you need other writers to fix your problems.

I could care less why Doom had a symbiote satellite, sounds like something Doom would have. The Tigra beatdown was awesome and showed how the Hood was willing to help his people get what they want. WHY Barton wears the suit was not important to me.

The other writers didn't 'clean up' Bendis' 'mess,' they expanded on the story. That's the beauty of a shared universe. A large flagship book with plenty of characters who have solo books is no place for page after page of detailed character points.

Ha, 'redeeming' Tigra. I could care less about Tigra.

Peace, love and all that good shit.

[Swie]

The other writers didn't 'clean up' Bendis' 'mess,' they expanded on the story. That's the beauty of a shared universe. A large flagship book with plenty of characters who have solo books is no place for page after page of detailed character points.

There's a general problem that I notice with comics where stuff "just happens" because it's convenient and the characters deal with it while it's fresh and then forget it. The reason this is a problem is that comics goes on forever and after a while stuff just happening becomes boring and contrived, and the reader forms attachments to the characters and wants to see them act like real people. Real people remember things, they don't get over things easily.

So when every writer acts like Bendis and just does his thing, then moves on, the result is a disjointed and childish story where characters have their brains reset every few months. It fails to take advantage of the only thing comics as a medium has going for it vs manga and TV... that it's very long-lived and shared. Having disjointed and random occurrences takes away from that.

So you're the type of person who reads the thing and forgets it. Many comic book readers aren't, and the genre is sort of designed for them. It's like writing for TV as if you were a book author-- it attracts a certain crowd, but it drives away the crowd that's actually attracted to the medium.

The funny thing is Bendis actually had Hawkeye comment on this exact subject during Disassembled. Hawkeye says (about Jack of Hearts) something like "he died and we just left him there and now he's back to kick our asses-- why do we always bounce from one thing to the next and never go back and clean up our messes?"

[Lord Bravery]

There's a general problem that I notice with comics where stuff "just happens" because it's convenient and the characters deal with it while it's fresh and then forget it. The reason this is a problem is that comics goes on forever and after a while stuff just happening becomes boring and contrived, and the reader forms attachments to the characters and wants to see them act like real people. Real people remember things, they don't get over things easily.

So when every writer acts like Bendis and just does his thing, then moves on, the result is a disjointed and childish story where characters have their brains reset every few months. It fails to take advantage of the only thing comics as a medium has going for it vs manga and TV... that it's very long-lived and shared. Having disjointed and random occurrences takes away from that.

So you're the type of person who reads the thing and forgets it. Many comic book readers aren't, and the genre is sort of designed for them. It's like writing for TV as if you were a book author-- it attracts a certain crowd, but it drives away the crowd that's actually attracted to the medium.

The funny thing is Bendis actually had Hawkeye comment on this exact subject during Disassembled. Hawkeye says (about Jack of Hearts) something like "he died and we just left him there and now he's back to kick our asses-- why do we always bounce from one thing to the next and never go back and clean up our messes?"

The bolded hits the nail right on the head. Probably the biggest thing that makes comics unique is the shared universe and the on going continuity.

So when writers like Bendis ignore that, it makes you think why the hell are they writing comics.