Avengers by Brian Michael Bendis: What is your verdict?

[Alex Dragon]

Uh Yeah except the book isnt selling well since all the "Events" have stopped theyre probably lower or just as low as they were before he took over. He's a one trick pony whos trick was to destroy the Avengers. The trick has been used up and now he has to actually write and its not working out to well. The so-called vocal minority isnt a minority anymore just look at the sales.

Events usually boost the sales of all the books they're tied to. Yes, I'd imagine the sales on Bendis' Avengers aren't as high as they were during the event phases but they're still among Marvel's top selling book. It's not like the events stopped and now those books aren't even in the top 20. They're still strong sellers at Marvel.

[Alex Dragon]

So next time you try to make a statement like this, come with some facts and not a personal bias.

Let's be honest you're not going to get that from the Bendis bashers. If you notice they all tend to become very annoyed when anyone points out the Bendis books are selling well. That's because they want to cling to the believe that the book isn't good because they don't like it and the number of people who feel the same is some huge number that's so great Marvel is making a grave mistake by not getting rid of Bendis. When people keep pointing out the sales are good it upsets them that they're a minority that probably isn't going to get their wish. Their goal is to try and convince people that they speak for the majority of readers. That's why you have constant threads from them bashing the books and doing multiple polls. It's their efforts to try and convince people the books are bad and show they're big in numbers. But all their efforts aren't going to change anything because in reality their numbers are very small in comparison to the people who like the Bendis books. No company in their right mind is going to toss out a product that's doing well with the masses to try and please a few unhappy customers and the bashers know this so any mention of sales annoys them.

They want to think that they know what's good and best for the book but really they're just fans like any other fan who like what they like and have opinions. But unlike most some fans they have an overblown sense of importance that the books should be done the way they see fit. They don't like the way the book is done and in their mind that means the book is "bad" and the people who can't see that there's clearly something wrong with them.
When a book they like is popular it really messes with their head. When thousands and thousands like something they don't like their ego must come up with a rationalization as to why their right and those thousands are wrong so they rationalize those people are dumb, gullible, have bad taste, etc...Anything but admit it might be themselves that don't get it.

That's fine if they don't like the books but these constant attempts to convince people that they're somehow the majority, that just because they don't like what he does automatically equals bad writing, that Marvel would be better off if he wasn't on the books, that somehow sales aren't as important as them getting what they want, or that the people who like what's happening in the books are some sort of suckers or don't know what's good, is pretty sad and lame.

[mistergoodman]

Okay, lets look at the sales. The Avengers books have been top 10 book since it began under Bendis. In fact all his Avengers books, whether it's New Avengers, Mighty Avengers, Dark Avengers (both books didn't have Spider-Man or Wolverine for those who are obsessed with arguing that Bendis's Avengers books were only successful because they have Spider-Man and Wolverine) and now just Avengers. All still top 10 books, usually top 5 books.

Yup. I don't care for Bendis on the Avengers at all (I'm an old school Avengers fan) but his Avengers books have been big, big hits for a long, long time. An awful lot of people clearly enjoy what he is doing. Hard to believe now, but Pre-Bendis the Avengers brand was so weak that it wasn't used at all for the Ultimate incarnation.

[Nomads1]

Let's be honest you're not going to get that from the Bendis bashers. If you notice they all tend to become very annoyed when anyone points out the Bendis books are selling well. That's because they want to cling to the believe that the book isn't good because they don't like it and the number of people who feel the same is some huge number that's so great Marvel is making a grave mistake by not getting rid of Bendis. When people keep pointing out the sales are good it upsets them that they're a minority that probably isn't going to get their wish. Their goal is to try and convince people that they speak for the majority of readers. That's why you have constant threads from them bashing the books and doing multiple polls. It's their efforts to try and convince people the books are bad and show they're big in numbers. But all their efforts aren't going to change anything because in reality their numbers are very small in comparison to the people who like the Bendis books. No company in their right mind is going to toss out a product that's doing well with the masses to try and please a few unhappy customers and the bashers know this so any mention of sales annoys them.

They want to think that they know what's good and best for the book but really they're just fans like any other fan who like what they like and have opinions. But unlike most some fans they have an overblown sense of importance that the books should be done the way they see fit. They don't like the way the book is done and in their mind that means the book is "bad" and the people who can't see that there's clearly something wrong with them.
When a book they like is popular it really messes with their head. When thousands and thousands like something they don't like their ego must come up with a rationalization as to why their right and those thousands are wrong so they rationalize those people are dumb, gullible, have bad taste, etc...Anything but admit it might be themselves that don't get it.

That's fine if they don't like the books but these constant attempts to convince people that they're somehow the majority, that just because they don't like what he does automatically equals bad writing, that Marvel would be better off if he wasn't on the books, that somehow sales aren't as important as them getting what they want, or that the people who like what's happening in the books are some sort of suckers or don't know what's good, is pretty sad and lame.

See? That's the biggest problem right there, you have automatically banded everyone who doesn't like Bendis work as Bendis Bashers. I'm not. I take offense in being called so. I don't think he is right foir the Avengers, and I have given numerous reasons (logical arguments, facts) for this. I recognize Bendis' talent. I actually liked a lot what I read in Ultimate Spider-man. Don't have much fondness for street-level characters (which I consider his forte), so don't follow much of his work, but, outside of Avengers, have liked what I have seen. However, I have as much a right to an opinion as you. In this case, opinion is a matter of taste. Mine obviously doesn't match yours. Doesn't make either right or wrong. This is a forum supposed to give people the right to post their opinions. Do so civilly, without belittleing the opinion of others. Get real, people! Look around you. The world is on the brink of a catastrofic ecological and economical disaster. And you are wasting time starting pissing matches over comics? Seriously? As is the case with most artforms, this is a medium that inspires passion. You can show your love for it without having to bring down the level of the conversation to name-calling. You want your opinions respected? You can start by respecting the opinion of others
Let's not be the reason fanboys get such a bad rap.

Peace

[Alan2099]

Let's be honest you're not going to get that from the Bendis bashers. If you notice they all tend to become very annoyed when anyone points out the Bendis books are selling well. That's because they want to cling to the believe that the book isn't good because they don't like it and the number of people who feel the same is some huge number that's so great Marvel is making a grave mistake by not getting rid of Bendis. When people keep pointing out the sales are good it upsets them that they're a minority that probably isn't going to get their wish. Their goal is to try and convince people that they speak for the majority of readers. That's why you have constant threads from them bashing the books and doing multiple polls. It's their efforts to try and convince people the books are bad and show they're big in numbers. But all their efforts aren't going to change anything because in reality their numbers are very small in comparison to the people who like the Bendis books. No company in their right mind is going to toss out a product that's doing well with the masses to try and please a few unhappy customers and the bashers know this so any mention of sales annoys them.

They want to think that they know what's good and best for the book but really they're just fans like any other fan who like what they like and have opinions. But unlike most some fans they have an overblown sense of importance that the books should be done the way they see fit. They don't like the way the book is done and in their mind that means the book is "bad" and the people who can't see that there's clearly something wrong with them.
When a book they like is popular it really messes with their head. When thousands and thousands like something they don't like their ego must come up with a rationalization as to why their right and those thousands are wrong so they rationalize those people are dumb, gullible, have bad taste, etc...Anything but admit it might be themselves that don't get it.

That's fine if they don't like the books but these constant attempts to convince people that they're somehow the majority, that just because they don't like what he does automatically equals bad writing, that Marvel would be better off if he wasn't on the books, that somehow sales aren't as important as them getting what they want, or that the people who like what's happening in the books are some sort of suckers or don't know what's good, is pretty sad and lame.

See, now me? I'm not trying to convince anybody I'm in the majority. The majority can be some very STUPID people with some very bad taste.

To me, Bendis is right up there with Backstreet Boys, 90s Image, and those "parody" movies with the word Movie in the title. (Scary Movie being an exception.)

You want to say it sells well and people like it. That's fine. That doesn't mean they're anything resembling right, that just means there's alot of people who are wrong.

Rather than being in the majority, I'd like to think I'm in the minority that actually has some taste.

See? That's the biggest problem right there, you have automatically banded everyone who doesn't like Bendis work as Bendis Bashers. I'm not. I take offense in being called so. I don't think he is right foir the Avengers, and I have given numerous reasons (logical arguments, facts) for this. I recognize Bendis' talent. I actually liked a lot what I read in Ultimate Spider-man. Don't have much fondness for street-level characters (which I consider his forte), so don't follow much of his work, but, outside of Avengers, have liked what I have seen. However, I have as much a right to an opinion as you. In this case, opinion is a matter of taste. Mine obviously doesn't match yours. Doesn't make either right or wrong. This is a forum supposed to give people the right to post their opinions. Do so civilly, without belittleing the opinion of others. Get real, people! Look around you. The world is on the brink of a catastrofic ecological and economical disaster. And you are wasting time starting pissing matches over comics? Seriously? As is the case with most artforms, this is a medium that inspires passion. You can show your love for it without having to bring down the level of the conversation to name-calling. You want your opinions respected? You can start by respecting the opinion of others
Let's not be the reason fanboys get such a bad rap.

I'm willing to say Bendis has some talent, but he really needs to be working outside of comics. His writing seems far better suited to television than comics.

[Lord Bravery]

See, now me? I'm not trying to convince anybody I'm in the majority. The majority can be some very STUPID people with some very bad taste.

To me, Bendis is right up there with Backstreet Boys, 90s Image, and those "parody" movies with the word Movie in the title. (Scary Movie being an exception.)

You want to say it sells well and people like it. That's fine. That doesn't mean they're anything resembling right, that just means there's alot of people who are wrong.

Rather than being in the majority, I'd like to think I'm in the minority that actually has some taste.

This is pretty much exactly how i feel.

Michael Bay movies rake in the cash. They are shit. Britney Spears used to rake in the cash. She is shit. Millions of people watch those stupid reality shows like Jersey Shore that are on MTV. They are also shit.

If people want to spend their hard earned money, or their parents money, on a load of old shite, that's their choice. But the fact still remains, popularity doesn't always = quality.

[NathanielEssex]

http://www.logicalfallacies.info/rel...to-popularity/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

Not sure if anyone is using popularity as a means of saying something is objectively good. But if they are, please know that it is a logical fallacy.

[PanzerMega]

Rather than being in the majority, I'd like to think I'm in the minority that actually has some taste.


I'm willing to say Bendis has some talent, but he really needs to be working outside of comics. His writing seems far better suited to television than comics.

I've said it before (probably in this thread), but between Ultimate Spider-Man, Torso, Jinx, Fortune and Glory, Daredevil, and Alias, Bendis has written more great comics so far in his career than most ever do.

Avengers may not be the best fit for him, but to say that comics aren't the medium for him disregards a decade of great work that you may not have read.

[lobsterj]

Yup. I don't care for Bendis on the Avengers at all (I'm an old school Avengers fan) but his Avengers books have been big, big hits for a long, long time. An awful lot of people clearly enjoy what he is doing. Hard to believe now, but Pre-Bendis the Avengers brand was so weak that it wasn't used at all for the Ultimate incarnation.

The month the Ultimate universe launched, Avengers was #5 on the sales charts and Amazing Spider-man was #18. So yes, I find your assertion very hard to believe.

[Alan2099]

I've said it before (probably in this thread), but between Ultimate Spider-Man, Torso, Jinx, Fortune and Glory, Daredevil, and Alias, Bendis has written more great comics so far in his career than most ever do.

Avengers may not be the best fit for him, but to say that comics aren't the medium for him disregards a decade of great work that you may not have read.

Okay, I'll amend my statement. Superhero comics aren't the medium for him.

Frankly, I always thought Ultimate Spider-man was horribly overrated.

[direction9]

http://www.logicalfallacies.info/rel...to-popularity/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

Not sure if anyone is using popularity as a means of saying something is objectively good. But if they are, please know that it is a logical fallacy.

it's just also pretentious and naive to think that this small number of you have managed to see through bendis's shoddy work while the rest of us have somehow been duped

[direction9]

Okay, I'll amend my statement. Superhero comics aren't the medium for him.

you can't read his daredevil work and try to back up this ridiculous statement

[Alex Dragon]

See? That's the biggest problem right there, you have automatically banded everyone who doesn't like Bendis work as Bendis Bashers. I'm not. I take offense in being called so.

That's totally fair. Not everyone is technically a "basher" but often I'm talking in generalizations and for the ease of not specifically breaking everyone down into their own seperate catagorizes of why they don't like Bendis on the AVENGERS I just use "bashers" as a generic blanket term. While I tend to think there are some true bashers here I'll stop using the term if it offends you or anyone else.

I don't think he is right foir the Avengers, and I have given numerous reasons (logical arguments, facts) for this. I recognize Bendis' talent. I actually liked a lot what I read in Ultimate Spider-man. Don't have much fondness for street-level characters (which I consider his forte), so don't follow much of his work, but, outside of Avengers, have liked what I have seen. However, I have as much a right to an opinion as you. In this case, opinion is a matter of taste. Mine obviously doesn't match yours. Doesn't make either right or wrong. This is a forum supposed to give people the right to post their opinions.

Please, by all means post your opinions. I don't understand how what I'm saying is stopping you from that. It's your right to post what you feel and my right to do so also. As far as I can see that's what's happening here. I never said you couldn' or shouldn't post your opinions.

Do so civilly, without belittleing the opinion of others.

I didn't do it with the intention of belittling anyone. Since you said you feel it does I won't use the term anymore.

Get real, people! Look around you. The world is on the brink of a catastrofic ecological and economical disaster. And you are wasting time starting pissing matches over comics? Seriously? As is the case with most artforms, this is a medium that inspires passion. You can show your love for it without having to bring down the level of the conversation to name-calling. You want your opinions respected? You can start by respecting the opinion of others
Let's not be the reason fanboys get such a bad rap.

Peace

I don't think it's anywhere near that serious a discussion. People are saying their opinions and I'm voicing mine. Your being offened aside, I really don't understand why what I'm saying is stopping anyone from voicing their opinions anymore than anyone else's. I didn't say anyone's opinion doesn't deserve respect, I simply point out why I don't agree with them.

I have to also ask why you single me out for the word "bashers"when another poster called some people here the far more insulting term:"idiots"? Does that have anything to do with his stance on Bendis being in line with yours?

[Alan2099]

you can't read his daredevil work and try to back up this ridiculous statement

I can't? Aww.... come on. Why not?

[Alex Dragon]

See, now me? I'm not trying to convince anybody I'm in the majority. The majority can be some very STUPID people with some very bad taste.

To me, Bendis is right up there with Backstreet Boys, 90s Image, and those "parody" movies with the word Movie in the title. (Scary Movie being an exception.)

You want to say it sells well and people like it. That's fine. That doesn't mean they're anything resembling right, that just means there's alot of people who are wrong.

Rather than being in the majority, I'd like to think I'm in the minority that actually has some taste.

Thank you. If you think your taste is superior to that of the people who like Bendis' stuff more power to you. If you want to say the people who like it are somehow "wrong" that's more than your right to do so. It's also my right to say I don't agree with you and point out that your personal taste is in no way a reflection of whether something is actually good or not.

I'm willing to say Bendis has some talent, but he really needs to be working outside of comics. His writing seems far better suited to television than comics.

And here I am once again to say I think he does great comics.