Avengers by Brian Michael Bendis: What is your verdict?

[nightwing45]

i was using the charts at comichron.com, which just collects the diamond sales charts. you might have been looking at the index, which has figures for orders based on an an index that has batman as 100.00, because of its presumed stability sales-wise. so batman will always be 100.00 on the index, and the number assigned to other issues will be in relation to batman.

Bendis has already said that Diamond only reflects the numbers they have. Marvel has access to the actual numbers which reflects how many units are sold in and out of the direct market. So that number is not entirely accurate.

[britishmixedwhiskey]

I enjoy some of his story arc's but they do seem to waste a lot of time just for the sake of the trades , compared to Dan Slotts Spidey at the moment or Jeff Parkers Thunderbolts not too much happens .

I do like his use of dialogue though and putting Spidey and Wolverine on the team was a great idea, saying that i hated his use of Vision and Wanda so yep im on the fence .... whenever his run is over i'll be able to judge it more objectively in comparison to the other great runs.

So far so ...... good ???

[Kunoichi]

I think some of his stuff is great.

When reading a lot in one chunk, his dialogue tics started to annoy me.

[Jota]

To be fair, the characters you've mentioned (Wolvie, Spidey, Thor, and Iron Man) all have solo books. I mean, you could argue that Bendis doesn't need to make them any more than shadow versions of themselves. As long as the basic concept behind Thor comes across then the reader may be enticed to pick up Thor's solo series to learn more. I'm not giving Bendis an excuse, but I'm just trying to consider that there may be a 'method to his madness', so to speak.

The thing is, you still have to make the characters recognizeable and, many times, that doesn't happen with Bendis. I don't know why anyone would want to buy those characters solo books if all they read before was the Bendis version. They are shallow and uninteresting in the Avengers and, even if someone likes those depictions, then they'll probably wont like them on the solos, where they look like completely diferent characters.

[nightwing45]

The thing is, you still have to make the characters recognizeable and, many times, that doesn't happen with Bendis. I don't know why anyone would want to buy those characters solo books if all they read before was the Bendis version. They are shallow and uninteresting in the Avengers and, even if someone likes those depictions, then they'll probably wont like them on the solos, where they look like completely diferent characters.

Even in the eighties, seventies, and going back. The characters had the basic generic aspects of a personality. Or stock archtypes. Bendis changed that as did Brubaker, and company by bringing personality driven dialogue into comics. They now all sound different and read different instead sounding too similar.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Even in the eighties, seventies, and going back. The characters had the basic generic aspects of a personality. Or stock archtypes. Bendis changed that as did Brubaker, and company by bringing personality driven dialogue into comics. They now all sound different and read different instead sounding too similar.

Even ignoring the massive generalization you are making about the writers before the 90s...


Brubaker and Bendis are FAR from the first to bring "personality driven dialogue into comics", even in Marvel. That goes as far back as the 60s, if not further.


I'd go as far as saying Bendis isn't even a good example of that.

[UKFan]

Even in the eighties, seventies, and going back. The characters had the basic generic aspects of a personality. Or stock archtypes. Bendis changed that as did Brubaker, and company by bringing personality driven dialogue into comics. They now all sound different and read different instead sounding too similar.

How, by having them all spout the same glib, pop culture referential stuff so they all sound like Spidey?

As for characters sounding the same before Bendis, have you actually read the great Avenger runs by Busiek, Stern, Johns et al?

[Alan2099]

You ever get a DVD and go to the extra section and watch deleted scenes with commentary? You know how the director (or whoever) tends to go on about "Well, we liked this scene, but it didn't add anything to the story, so we had to cut it" or "this was a nice conversation, but it slowed thing down. We wanted to keep things going, so it got the axe"? Bendis strikes me as the opposite of those guys.

What he needs is an ironfisted editor. Somebody who looks at his scripts, sees he's spent twice as many pages with Cage and Jessica talkijng about what superhero name she should use than he has on them fighting an out o control Doombot and sending it back for rewrites.

[nightwing45]

Even ignoring the massive generalization you are making about the writers before the 90s...


Brubaker and Bendis are FAR from the first to bring "personality driven dialogue into comics", even in Marvel. That goes as far back as the 60s, if not further.


I'd go as far as saying Bendis isn't even a good example of that.

It's not a massive generalization. Bendis women read as differently as his men do. If you read a Claremont story, or whoever the dialogue could be switched around and you wouldn't notice too much of a difference except the basic personality bits. And that's only if you have a strong grasp of the characters.

[nightwing45]

How, by having them all spout the same glib, pop culture referential stuff so they all sound like Spidey?

As for characters sounding the same before Bendis, have you actually read the great Avenger runs by Busiek, Stern, Johns et al?

I have. Busiek's dialogue is terrible. Stern's is a dated. Johns has a tin ear for dialogue. Even my favorite writer John Byrne wasn't the greatest dialogue writer. But, he didn't need to be because unlike Busiek and Johns. He could tell the story thru his art and visual narrative.

[nightwing45]

You ever get a DVD and go to the extra section and watch deleted scenes with commentary? You know how the director (or whoever) tends to go on about "Well, we liked this scene, but it didn't add anything to the story, so we had to cut it" or "this was a nice conversation, but it slowed thing down. We wanted to keep things going, so it got the axe"? Bendis strikes me as the opposite of those guys.

What he needs is an ironfisted editor. Somebody who looks at his scripts, sees he's spent twice as many pages with Cage and Jessica talkijng about what superhero name she should use than he has on them fighting an out o control Doombot and sending it back for rewrites.

And that was the problem for myself and many other fans who couldn't get into the Avengers. It was fights all the time. You could never become invested in the characters, as their was no room to breath between events. It was all balls to the wall action with no character development.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

It's not a massive generalization. Bendis women read as differently as his men do. If you read a Claremont story, or whoever the dialogue could be switched around and you wouldn't notice too much of a difference except the basic personality bits. And that's only if you have a strong grasp of the characters.

Ok.

So what you are trying to tell is after all the Watchmen, Squadron Supreme, DKR, Great Darkness Saga, Walt Simonson's Thor, James Robinson's Starman, Stan and Kirby's FF, all those great stories and runs...


Bendis and Brubaker are the ones who helped innovate "personality driven dialogue into comics".


Are you serious?

[strathcona]

Even in the eighties, seventies, and going back. The characters had the basic generic aspects of a personality. Or stock archtypes. Bendis changed that as did Brubaker, and company by bringing personality driven dialogue into comics. They now all sound different and read different instead sounding too similar.

Actually, I would say that was all changed back in '61 with Stan Lee on a book called Fantastic Four #1. Since then most of the top writers at Marvel have been able to capture individual character voices and personalities in their scripts. Certain writers you listed, Claremont, Stern, Busiek are some of the best examples of this. Bendis on the other hand is a step backwards and has each character sounding the same. His character's speech balloons are interchangable and don't mesh with any characters existing personalities.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

And that was the problem for myself and many other fans who couldn't get into the Avengers. It was fights all the time. You could never become invested in the characters, as their was no room to breath between events. It was all balls to the wall action with no character development.

Now you are just talking out of your rear end.


If it was "all balls to the wall action with no character development", there would be absolutely no fans of:

Hawkeye
Quicksilver
Scarlet Witch
Wonder Man
Hank Pym
Janet
Tigra
Hercules (Marvel's Hercules)

And there's probably a bunch I forgot. Those character's entire histories are mostly in the pages of the Avengers. Their ups, downs, marriages, break ups, and defining moments.

[strathcona]

And that was the problem for myself and many other fans who couldn't get into the Avengers. It was fights all the time. You could never become invested in the characters, as their was no room to breath between events. It was all balls to the wall action with no character development.

So what you are saying is that you have never actually read an Avengers comic before. Because what you just said is completely inaccurate.