Avengers by Brian Michael Bendis: What is your verdict?

[strathcona]

Even if I put aside my dislike of his writing, I can honestly say that he is not near the best Avengers writer of all time.

First of all, Stern, Englehart (both original and WCA versions), Busiek, Johns, Byrne, Thomas and Harras's runs are all far better IMO.

Second, while he did bring in a large number of new fans and has made the book a consistant top seller, he did that by ignoring everything that made the Avengers the Avengers. He has publicly stated that he doesn't like most of the characters that ARE the Avengers, and has either just ignored them or badly mangled their characters. What he created with New Avengers is not the same team as the previous Avengers. He missed the concept of the World's Mightiest Heroes gathering to fight threats that no one else could face. While the characters he has selected may be able to face these greater threats, they certainly have not been facing them (outside of SI, which really was neither just them, nor was it really as threatening as it was made out to be (but I attribute that to Bendis's writing)). The Avengers are supposed to be fighting world or universe class threats or at least country level threats (while occasionally facing city level threats or less), but Bendis's team rarely faces threats of that magnitude.

So, you may say that New Avengers is the best Avengers book ever, but you are missing the point that Bendis is not actually writing an Avengers book, he is just writing a book with the word Avengers on the cover.

[TeamED209]

I really enjoyed all his a avengers stuff up untill the leading up to civil war

and i have disliked all his avengers stuff since...

i don't collect any bendis comics anymore but based on the avengers comics i did read i'd say it had great moments but overall it was no where near the best ever for me....imo anyways

[Ziggy Stardust]

Even if I put aside my dislike of his writing, I can honestly say that he is not near the best Avengers writer of all time.

First of all, Stern, Englehart (both original and WCA versions), Busiek, Johns, Byrne, Thomas and Harras's runs are all far better IMO.

Second, while he did bring in a large number of new fans and has made the book a consistant top seller, he did that by ignoring everything that made the Avengers the Avengers. He has publicly stated that he doesn't like most of the characters that ARE the Avengers, and has either just ignored them or badly mangled their characters. What he created with New Avengers is not the same team as the previous Avengers. He missed the concept of the World's Mightiest Heroes gathering to fight threats that no one else could face. While the characters he has selected may be able to face these greater threats, they certainly have not been facing them (outside of SI, which really was neither just them, nor was it really as threatening as it was made out to be (but I attribute that to Bendis's writing)). The Avengers are supposed to be fighting world or universe class threats or at least country level threats (while occasionally facing city level threats or less), but Bendis's team rarely faces threats of that magnitude.

So, you may say that New Avengers is the best Avengers book ever, but you are missing the point that Bendis is not actually writing an Avengers book, he is just writing a book with the word Avengers on the cover.

If I was a woman, I'd want to bear your children!

[AllisterH]

Strathcona, your argument holds no water.

The team that put the STAMP on being the Avengers was Cap's kooky quarter which consisted of Captain America(street level), Hawkeye (Street evel), Wanda ("oh, I'm fainting again, the effort was too much") and Quicksilver (mid tier).

The New Avengers team currently would wipe the floor with them....

[Ziggy Stardust]

Strathcona, your argument holds no water.

The team that put the STAMP on being the Avengers was Cap's kooky quarter which consisted of Captain America(street level), Hawkeye (Street evel), Wanda ("oh, I'm fainting again, the effort was too much") and Quicksilver (mid tier).

And how long was that group in place before Wasp, Giant Man, and Hercules joined?

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Strathcona, your argument holds no water.

The team that put the STAMP on being the Avengers was Cap's kooky quarter which consisted of Captain America(street level), Hawkeye (Street evel), Wanda ("oh, I'm fainting again, the effort was too much") and Quicksilver (mid tier).

The New Avengers team currently would wipe the floor with them....

No single line-up put a STAMP on being the Avengers, and definitely not the Kooky Quartet (though it's members are iconic). Their reputation was built up by years of adventures and battles.

The Kooky Quartet put the stamp on certain staples of the Avengers: major line-up changes and redemption. But that's it.

And his argument wasn't about power level, but the threats they face, and how they operate.

[daveageallen]

does it count as a run of avengers? yeah they are an avengers team but he destroyed the tile. to make his own.e killed avengers and made na. da. ma. i do not count this as apart of the 40 year old title. its a new one.

i do not like it much. i do not like how he has to mess with everything t fit it in to his stories, or mess with other peopls comics and not fit his in.he would do better on his own original material where he does not have to follow continuity or other titles


i never read many of the major avengers comics because its hard to find them here and never found any tpb's.

[Byzantine]

Not even close to the likes of Busiek and Byrne.

Do not pass go, do not collect $200 dollars.

[Ziggy Stardust]

has some lame-brain tried to use the "BUT LOOK AT THE SALES FIGURES!!!!" argument yet?

[strathcona]

No single line-up put a STAMP on being the Avengers, and definitely not the Kooky Quartet (though it's members are iconic). Their reputation was built up by years of adventures and battles.

The Kooky Quartet put the stamp on certain staples of the Avengers: major line-up changes and redemption. But that's it.

Absolutely correct.

There has been a lot of talk on CBR lately about the return of the Big Three and maybe a classic team of Avengers. What I don't think a lot of people (especially people that are only familiar with the Bendis version) are familiar with is, it's not really Captain America, Iron Man and Thor that make the Avengers... It's the next level down. You have Hank Pym, Wasp, Scarlet Witch, Hawkeye, Vision and Wonder Man that REALLY make up the heart of the Avengers. Yeah, yeah, I can already hear the complaints. "Anyone can be an Avenger, as long as the writer wants them to be" or " But they are all lame and I don't like them". That is missing the point. The Avengers book over 40 years didn't really do much to develop Cap, Iron Man and Thor as characters, they had their own books for that. The characters that got developed were the ones above. They didn't have their own titles (or they were shortlived) and the place that they got their development was in the Avengers books. THEY created the feel of the Avengers. I don't understand how Bendis can say that he loves the classic Avengers, but then say he doesn't like (or prove it through his mishandling) the characters above. They ARE the Avengers.... yes, there have been many others that have shared the title as well, and there are some that fit well into the sma category (Tigra, She-Hulk, Ms. Marvel, Black Knight, Hercules, Monica Rambeau, etc). So I'm not saying you have to use the group above, but you at least have to UNDERSTAND them in order to understand the Avengers. Bendis has shown that he doesn't and has actually stated his dislike for most of them.

Sorry, I didn't mean to rant.

And his argument wasn't about power level, but the threats they face, and how they operate.

Again, this is absolutely correct. Hell, Hawkeye and Cap are two of the weakest 'powerwise' Avengers of all time... but they are the two that embody what it means to be an Avengers the most. It doesn't matter what power you have, but what you do with it. The Avengers saved worlds and universes. The New Avengers sit around and talk and fight street gangs.

[strathcona]

If I was a woman, I'd want to bear your children!

I must say, that is probably the best compliment I have ever had on CBR.

[lilyinblue]

Bendis will always be very polarizing.

Sometimes, I think he's very hard to compare to some of the past Avengers' greats only because what he did was so different in many ways. To me, they read entirely differently. I think it really boils down to what you want out of your Avengers.

Personally, though, I was mostly just an X-franchise reader until Bendis took over the Avengers. Now, I'd have to say I generally look forward to my Avengers books more than my X books every month.

[Burning_Pumpkin]

So, you may say that New Avengers is the best Avengers book ever, but you are missing the point that Bendis is not actually writing an Avengers book, he is just writing a book with the word Avengers on the cover.

I thoroughly disagree.

And I would argue that it is you, Sir, that is missing the point.

[giovedi]

Second, while he did bring in a large number of new fans and has made the book a consistant top seller, he did that by ignoring everything that made the Avengers the Avengers. He has publicly stated that he doesn't like most of the characters that ARE the Avengers, and has either just ignored them or badly mangled their characters.

Very good post and I agree with what you said.You've written what I was thinking, but a million times better. This is what bothers me the most about the Avengers.

To me, it feels like an Avengers fanfic Bendis wrote when he was in college.

[Richard Bishop]

I like Bendis' work well enough, as he has certainly raised the profile of the Avengers during his time on the franchise, but there are things about his run that irk me, such as:

1. The fact that many people now identify Wolverine and Spider-Man as being "core Avengers" is somewhat unsettling to me. Tony, Steve and Thor are synonymous with the ideals of being an Avenger; Wolverine and Spidey are sales drivers.
2. His constant pushing of pet characters such as Luke Cage (who I like in other circumstances), Spider-Woman (meh) and The Hood (double meh). Using these folks in small doses rather than central figures would suit my tastes better, but that's just me.
3. Decompressed storytelling. I don't buy trades, I buy floppies, so having to pick up six issues, in order to read a story that a writer 30 years ago would have told in two while also advancing four separate subplots, pisses me off.

Don't get me wrong. I enjoy reading his stuff compared to much of what else is published today, but having read every Avengers issue from #100 up, I can think of other writers who maybe did not do as much for the franchise but whose work was better from a storytelling aspect.