Wonder woman = truth. What does that mean

[spidervenom]

Nuff said.......

[Spiffy]

NOT that she never tells lies.

She's human right? (Err... well as human as a human soul placed in an artificial body can be, I suppose) Even if its unintentional for many, there isn't a human who's ever existed who hasn't lied at some point (and in small ways, almost constantly).

She's a force for a movement towards truth, that's all. Also she carries around a honking good lie detector/tool for compulsion. Beyond that? If its still more than that in current continuity, it would make my head hurt.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I look at it this way:

Artemis is the goddess of the hunt.
She knows everything there is to know about hunting, tracking, timing, camouflage, animals, inside out. The forest is almost transparent to her.

Same goes for Diana.
It´s not that she never lies.
It´s that she reads truth like the palm of her hand and plays with it like the cat plays with a ball of string..

[Major Comma]

Eliseu,
Your not saying Diana is the Goddess of Truth right?
She gave up her immortality long ago.
If Artemis is the Goddess of the hunt She sure got captured easily in Secret Six recently.

[MinaRho1]

I look at it this way:

Artemis is the goddess of the hunt.
She knows everything there is to know about hunting, tracking, timing, camouflage, animals, inside out. The forest is almost transparent to her.

Same goes for Diana.
It´s not that she never lies.
It´s that she reads truth like the palm of her hand and plays with it like the cat plays with a ball of string..

I will further what Eliseu Gouveia said and that as Artemis honors the forest, Diana will honor the truth. I don't think Diana would "play with the truth" but I don't think there are absolutes here either. The concept of the absolute truth and never lying are as fairy tale as it gets. I think the test of Wonder Woman's wisdom is working to uphold a greater truth-- as when heroes have to discard one thing to uphold a greater good--- (not an absolute good).

[MinaRho1]

Eliseu,
Your not saying Diana is the Goddess of Truth right?
She gave up her immortality long ago.
If Artemis is the Goddess of the hunt She sure got captured easily in Secret Six recently.

You do know that Artemis of the Bana and Artemis of the Olympic Pantheon are seperate entities right?

[Phil Jimenez]

I'm always interested in the notion of "truth" vs. facts, which, in spiritual terms, can be two different things (the timeless truth of a tale, for example, that may not be factual accurate...)...

[trypr]

I'm always interested in the notion of "truth" vs. facts, which, in spiritual terms, can be two different things (the timeless truth of a tale, for example, that may not be factual accurate...)...

Well a truth is personal and often relative; not everyone will see the "timeless truth" in a tale. A fact however, is a form of truth that is objectively verifiable.

Part of the puzzle is obviously the English language, and how people have adapted old words and meanings to new ones, but the conceptual distinction seems cut and dried to me; perception itself is very interesting :o

Part of the meaning of truth is as old as magical realism yet the idea survives to the modern era: since the idea of security continues to have such a powerful evolutionary pull on us.

[Phil Jimenez]

Well a truth is personal and often relative; not everyone will see the "timeless truth" in a tale. A fact however, is a form of truth that is objectively verifiable. .

People don't have to "see" the timeless truth in a tale for such a thing to exist; plenty of stuff goes over my head, but I wouldn't blame the story, the truth, the stuff, I'd blame the limits of my perception.

And "facts" are tricky things -- especially because it requires everyone involved to be on the same page about the methods one uses to verify that fact.

Further, each often feeds a different need, in both practical terms and spiritual terms, and certainly in storytelling ones, anyway.

[MinaRho1]

People don't have to "see" the timeless truth in a tale for such a thing to exist; plenty of stuff goes over my head, but I wouldn't blame the story, the truth, the stuff, I'd blame the limits of my perception.

And "facts" are tricky things -- especially because it requires everyone involved to be on the same page about the methods one uses to verify that fact.

this is very much in line with my stance. Truth is relative, but its worthwhile to uphold, despite the difficulty it poses.

For example, witness testimony is the highest form of truth in the courtroom, but the LOWEST in scientific terms.People can be ignorant. They get tired. Their eyes play tricks on them. But given certain http://ladyscientist.com/the_ghost_in_the_machine.htmlcircumstances, they'll swear up anddown that they've seen a ghost. To that person its the truth, its REAL. But others would know its not.

[americanwonder]

She's a force for a movement towards truth, that's all.

I like this as a quick and easy summary.

I don't think see knows all truth, but does have a keen sense for finding it. I think she can tell a lie, but would rarely do so, because she places such a high value on truth and the trust that it can build between people.

Just as her physical training is the pursuit of the highest potential of the body, I see her dedication to truth as a sort of spiritual journey for herself as an individual, but also for all of us as a collective, because truth can free us from the bonds of ignorance, bigotry, and even hatred.

People don't have to "see" the timeless truth in a tale for such a thing to exist; plenty of stuff goes over my head, but I wouldn't blame the story, the truth, the stuff, I'd blame the limits of my perception.

And "facts" are tricky things -- especially because it requires everyone involved to be on the same page about the methods one uses to verify that fact.

I really like your first sentence here - truth, imo, is what it is, whether or not we "see" it. That's why I'm not much of a believer in "relative truths" - at best, imo, they're a piece of the puzzle, but not the whole picture - kind of like the seven blind men, each feeling a different part of an elephant and assuming they know what it is.

However, your second part about "facts," wouldn't that be similar to what your first sentence is saying about truth? In other words, the facts don't change, just our ability to "see" them.

[MadJohnFinn]

I tend to think of the fact / truth thing like this:

Take a famous story; say the Christian Parable of "The Good Samaritan"

Someone concerned with the facts might ask:
"Did this event actually happen?"
"If so, when?"
"What do we know about the people involved?"

Whereas someone concerned with truth might ask:
"What is the importance of this story?"
"What can we learn from it?"
What does it tell us about ourselves?"

[Major Comma]

Mina,
Yes I do know, They are seperate entities .
But I Didnt know which one Eliseu was referrring to.
Butt since this is a Wonder Woman thread
I confused the Godess Artemis with the one we know .
I guess the source of my confusion is answering a question about Dianas relationship to the truth by comparing her with a goddess of the Olympic Pantheon.
Diana WAS a goddess
She hasent been for awhile though.
The comparison threw me offf a bit.

[Fake Shemp]

I tend to think of the fact / truth thing like this:

Take a famous story; say the Christian Parable of "The Good Samaritan"

Someone concerned with the facts might ask:
"Did this event actually happen?"
"If so, when?"
"What do we know about the people involved?"

Whereas someone concerned with truth might ask:
"What is the importance of this story?"
"What can we learn from it?"
What does it tell us about ourselves?"

Perfectly said.

I always thought that, in Diana's case, "truth" was all about finding depth and meanings that other people don't see. That's why I'm such a big fan of Gail's interpretation of the lasso...it doesn't just force people to spill out facts, it gives her insight into their intentions.

[Mars Getsoian]

She hasent been for awhile though.

She's still a demigod, though, so it's not as though the comparison isn't still valid.

Diana stands for Truth, which means she looks for it, she defends it, she exposes it, and she honors it. If you think that you hate someone, but actually, you're just scared and insecure, she can see that, and get you to see it. It's underlying, primal truths she's after, not necessarily facts - all that vague stuff like "true self" and "true feelings" and "true needs." I've always found Kelly's Golden Perfect arc a great summary - Ailani's truth is that she's miserable and a prisoner and deserves a life with her son, and that's absolutely rock-bottom incontestable, and Rama Khan's truth is that the boy is needed for the good of the people, and that's absolutely rock-bottom incontestable too. And these facts are not actually in opposition in the least - they can coexist with no trouble at all. Diana's job as steward of the Truth isn't to pick one and call it "THE Truth," it's to understand that both are true, something most people aren't capable of doing the way she does, and to find a way to balance those opposing needs, something almost no one is capable of doing the way she does.

She can lie, but she's not generally going to. A priest can punch somebody in the face, he might even be a boxing champ, but when presented with an actual problem, the idea that "violence is the best way to solve this" is 99% of the time not even going to occur to him. He'd certainly never punch out a friend or put himself in a position to regularly commit violence casually - to him violence is destructive and a cause of more problems, not a solution. To Diana, lies are destructive; she may use them when they're genuinely the best way, but she's only rarely going to think they are, and it should be a painful and powerful thing for its scarcity and unfittingness.