Diana Prince - What The Hell?

[brettc1]

Explain to me how, when she had a secret ID during Gail Simone's run, it protected her loved ones (being IIRC the Amazons, Wonder Woman's boyfriend, Etta Candy, and a couple of gorillas).

Were any of these people attacked on the toilet by Cheetah? No. Circe grabs Tom early in volume 3, but unfortunately you can't seem to trick her by changing your clothes. Psycho is fooled though.

Etta suffered exactly because Diana had never had a secret identity.

The thing with volume 3 is that it never got around to establishing Diana's life out of costume. But perhaps her the neighbours around her apartment were grateful Giganta never turned up and stomped the building flat.

Identity proved exactly one thing: Brad Meltzer is not very good comicbook writer.

By the way, speaking of Identity Crisis, Robin having a secret identity didn't do his father a lot of good. Sue Dibney was killed by a civilian friend. And her being raped was in no way at all the fault of Ralph not having a secret identity. It's not as if Dr. Light came after her in her own home. Or came specifically after her at all, actually.

On the contrary - Robin's father survived as long as he did because of the secret id. He was only killed at all because the wrong person knew the secret, which just highlights the need for a secret identity to be closely gaurded. It did, however, raise the issue of protecting the secret ids and what is and is not acceptable. For example, mindwiping the villains who stole the JL's bodies in an earlier adventure. Which personally I have no problem with.

[carabas]

The thing with volume 3 is that it never got around to establishing Diana's life out of costume. But perhaps her the neighbours around her apartment were grateful Giganta never turned up and stomped the building flat.

And this is different from volume 1 how exactly?

On the contrary - Robin's father survived as long as he did because of the secret id. He was only killed at all because the wrong person knew the secret, which just highlights the need for a secret identity to be closely gaurded. It did, however, raise the issue of protecting the secret ids and what is and is not acceptable. For example, mindwiping the villains who stole the JL's bodies in an earlier adventure. Which personally I have no problem with.

Robi's dad is a big, giant plot hole, because the Batclan is actually rather careful with their secrets, and Jean Loring had no way of knowing who Robin's dad was. Which just adds to the arguement that a story that a writer specifically crafted to prove that secret IDs are important is no proof at all. It's just as easy to write a story that secret IDs aren't important at all and more a hindrace than a boon. The writer has a belief and writes a - terribly hamfisted and plotholy - story to support that idea. It has no merit as proof.

[brettc1]

And this is different from volume 1 how exactly?

Well for one thing, in volume 1 the villains were not the same kind of sadistic, homicidal freaks we have now who murder whole cities. Oh sure, they tried, but somehow the heroes always managed to prevent thousands of innocent people getting slaughtered.

Not so now. Its rare that a story goes by without unsuspecting civilians dying in droves. In that kind of environment not having a secret identity and then making friends with people is almost criminally irresponsible.

Robi's dad is a big, giant plot hole, because the Batclan is actually rather careful with their secrets, and Jean Loring had no way of knowing who Robin's dad was. Which just adds to the arguement that a story that a writer specifically crafted to prove that secret IDs are important is no proof at all. It's just as easy to write a story that secret IDs aren't important at all and more a hindrace than a boon. The writer has a belief and writes a - terribly hamfisted and plotholy - story to support that idea. It has no merit as proof.

I agree - while it had good individual moment as a whole plot its rather poorly contrived. But the initial concept - the need to protect secret identities - is sound. Hell, even armed forces personnel have a similar system. They cant always tell people where they are being posted overseas because it could compromise security. If you were the guy who helped take out a terrorist cell, would you announce it on facebook along with a picture of your family in front of your house? Or even tell a close friend outside the military, knowing it could get back to the wrong people?

[slvn]

Well for one thing, in volume 1 the villains were not the same kind of sadistic, homicidal freaks we have now who murder whole cities. Oh sure, they tried, but somehow the heroes always managed to prevent thousands of innocent people getting slaughtered.

Maybe this is to consider too curiously...but in v1, wasn't Mars the instigator of WWII? A lot of innocent people got slaughtered in WWII, before Wonder Woman helped win it. No doubt, she helped thousands MORE people from getting slaughtered, but heroes still are able to mitigate the damage, right?

I keep mentioning that Mars in WW v1 #2 Mars uses Steve against Wonder Woman. I'm pretty sure there are other instances of villains doing this later on. The funny thing about the secret ID in v1 is that everyone seemed to know that Wonder Woman was close with Steve and Etta; so how exactly did the secret ID protect them? Really, its main function seems to have been to let Diana watch over Steve without his or the military's knowledge.

In theory, you could have secret IDs--or at least certainly secret missions, as in the military analogy you mention--that make sense. But in a lot of ways, Wonder Woman's (among other classic superhero IDs) only made sense if you didn't think about it too much.

[Rob_Olivera]

Thanks, Rob. Well said.

I can see the analogy between being in the closet and having a superhero-style "secret identity"; but I have to say, it still seems different to me in important ways. If a friend I'd known for a long time surprised me by coming out, I'd feel happy that they were able to do that, and sorry that they'd had to be be in the closet so long, but I wouldn't feel that they had deceived me in a way that I could blame them for. I get that they would have lied to me--but it would have been to avoid revealing deep desires and self-understandings, which they didn't feel safe sharing and which I had no particular right to know.

On the other hand, I think we have, if not exactly a "right," at least a more reasonable expectation to know in a much more basic and superficial way who we're interacting with--even if we don't know them by the names they are born with, and even if we know nothing about how they see themselves deep down, we should at least know whether we're dealing with one physical human being or two. For example, if I pretended to be my friend's counselor, and he told me secrets he wouldn't have shared with me as his friend, I think he'd have a reason to be mad. No? What if Diana shared his feelings for Wonder Woman with Diana Prince before he felt comfortable sharing them with Wonder Woman herself? Same kind of problem, right?

And of course, whether or not "Lt. Diana Prince" was a legitimately commissioned officer from the Army Nurses Corps was very much the business of her superior officers.

And ultimately, I just don't think her reasons for secrecy were nearly as good. The secret ID didn't seem to work to protect her loved ones, since people knew that Steve and Etta were close to Wonder Woman, even though they didn't know that she was Diana Prince. And it's not clear to me why she didn't think she could trust Steve and Etta to help keep her secret.

Is my analysis taking the comic way too seriously? Absolutely.

Well you MAY be taking the comic way too seriously.. but... so what? It's what we're here for isn't it? To get away from the "real" world and talk about fictional things. It isn't for everyone, but those for whom it isn't, are not reading this nor any other board dedicated to fictional characters so let's go for it.

A fake-ID for a superhero is almost a "necessary evil". A necessary evil that isn't always written right!

In the TV-Show (L.Carter --- and sorry to bring it up, but it's basically the only Live Action we've had) it definitely was NOT written right, particularly when it came to the non-World War II episodes. Steve Trevor sometimes referred to Diana Prince as one of IADC's "best" agents.

Why? She never did anything. She always disappeared and Wonder Woman emerged to save the day. Yet, Steve Trevor never seemed to notice that Diana Prince never really REALLY resolved anything. This was bad when examined through adult viewers' eyes.

In cases where (in the comics) Steve Trevor (or fill-in-the-blank love interest) fell in love with Wonder Woman and never noticed Diana Prince.. well.. that's kind of screwed up on many levels, particularly if all 3 "characters" shared the same circle (Diana/Steve/WW).

#1. She's a bitch for lying to him so blatantly for so long.
#2. Steve would be blind as a bat for not knowing they're the same person (throw Lois Lane in for good measure regarding Sman).
#3. When the secret comes out (if it comes out) that would totally kill any chances for friendship between them. I'd feel betrayed to filth, and I wouldn't be surprised if it ended in major animosity as a result. It would with me. I'd feel used and treated like a totally worthless piece of meat.

As far as "trusting" him enough to tell him (or her best friend(s))... well that would be ideal wouldn't it? They kind of managed it back in pre-crisis between issues 224-230+ before turning the book into the Earth-2 series. Even Steve Trevor had a secret identity as Steve Howard when he was resurrected by Aphrodite. So see? She's not the only one playing games. The only reason Diana knew was due to the way he came back to life through one of her goddesses done right in front of her.

I can imagine what would happen if a major celebrity published his/her address in the phone book using the real name.

[Red Mask]

Did anyone else have the same reaction as me, when they unveiled Wonder Woman's secret identity? Does anyone understand why nobody realizes she's Wonder Woman?

I can flub my eyes on Superman, especially since I've seen people who with nothing but a new haircut - and even glasses - I'm going, "That's the same person? Really? Nose, lines, eyes - yeah, same person, aren't they?"

You have to accept there is a certain level of stupidity amongst the people in the DC universe. Why she doesn't just do the Shazam thing is beyond me. But that's how it goes.

[carabas]

#2. Steve would be blind as a bat for not knowing they're the same person (throw Lois Lane in for good measure regarding Sman).

To be fair to silver age Lois Lane, she must have been the world's most perceptive woman, because she was pretty much the only one on earth who saw through the disguise repeatedly, and spent quite a lot of time proving that Superman was Clark Kent. Which lead to Superman discovering ever more ludicrous powers and power stunts to obfuscate the truth.

[UsagiTsukino]

Well I would like it being explain that Diana is protected by a shield in which no one knows it's her. Also, the 2009 movie plays it great Steve should know her Secret identity. Unlike Superman I would said it's easier if why people don't recognize her is because She looks different to them but not to us.