Sam and Dean VS Angelus

[Alexander the immortal]

You're misunderstanding me.

Let's say I create a fictional show that has a fictional character that has a sword that has the power to kill demons. It works on any demon on the show.

I cannot in good faith tranfer it's potency to another show with completely different context of demons.

The Colt's power is too ill-defined in what it can and cannot do. Saying it can 'kill monsters' isn't enough to say it can kill any monster in any universe.

What's a 'monster'?

Is Yoda or the Count from Sesame Street a monster?

It supposedly can kill anything. I don't see why Yda or the Count would be immune. ofcourse there is no certainty in the absence of enough evidence. A claim alone and some feats may not tell us the whole story. We can assume it is made to kill anything , but the creator of the gun may have missred a thing or two. (or maybe not.)

But you can't say it won't work because of a different universe. It doesn't work like that. Like i said before (and i have no problem repeating), it supposedly can kill anything. That is all the information we have about it. From it we make the assumptions. So far the assumption that makes the most sense is that it probably would work vs Buffy universe supernaturals.

[Pendaran]

I think everyone is just assuming that a demon is a demon in any universe when I've clearly argued that the Buffyverse demons are really just alien beings or decedants of the Old Ones who aren't necessarily 'demonic' like Supernatural intends demons to be.

This was not your basis for trying to discount the Colt and its efficacy on supernatural beings. Your own posts for this have been quoted.

[Bullets& Bracelets]

Again, that is not anything like how your claims went.

If you've misunderstood me or I voiced my opinion in way that gave off the wrong direction of the argument than I apologize.

I always think that magic or anything that's 'non-science' should be kept relevant to it's own universe.

Things like Superman's heat vision can be an exception in the case that we can all assume that the laws of physics apply to any universe unless specified.

Fire burns. Ice melts. Lasers hurt. Etc.

Magic/Supernatural is not the laws of physics. Magic/Supernatural is defined and re-defined in every universe. It has it own laws

Harry Potter magic is not Twilight magic.

Supernatural demons are not Buffy demons.

That's why I believe they're not interchangeable.

[Alexander the immortal]

Things like Superman's heat vision can be an exception in the case that we can all assume that the laws of physics apply to any universe unless specified.

Not really. One could claim that Superman may not get his powers to work in a different than DC universe. Who knows all those other DC characters how they meddled with everything even the Sun . Of course we have no evidence of that happening. (so it is a bad example/argument.) We also do not have any evidence that colt can not affect other universe supernaturals/anythings.

[Alexander the immortal]

Magic/Supernatural is not the laws of physics. Magic/Supernatural is defined and re-defined in every universe. It has it own laws

Ah like the (bad ) superman example i provided. In Dc universe the Sun can power up superman. Maybe Dc universe Suns are different than our own.

[Pendaran]

If you've misunderstood me or I voiced my opinion in way that gave off the wrong direction of the argument than I apologize.

I always think that magic or anything that's 'non-science' should be kept relevant to it's own universe.

Things like Superman's heat vision can be an exception in the case that we can all assume that the laws of physics apply to any universe unless specified.

Fire burns. Ice melts. Lasers hurt. Etc.

Magic/Supernatural is not the laws of physics. Magic/Supernatural is defined and re-defined in every universe. It has it own laws

Harry Potter magic is not Twilight magic.

Supernatural demons are not Buffy demons.

That's why I believe they're not interchangeable.

No, that is not like anything you said in any way whatsoever.

It was pointed out the variety in things the Colt has killed. That resultingly there is no particular reason to say it would be any less potent on any other sort of being of similar heft in power to the things it has killed. Since if it can kill across variety, the only arguement becomes trying to say something would be too powerful for it to affect.

In response to that sort of thing being pointed out, in order to dismiss it, you said this:

Supernatural vampires are infected with demon essence. They're not human but not quite demon.

This:

It works against the demons and monsters in Supernatural because they're all related to Hell and Lucifer.

And this:

The Colt was specifically created from elements that work against demons in the Supernatural universe.

Those are your own posts.

So, /again/, where was this shown? Each of these things.

[Bullets& Bracelets]

Not really. One could claim that Superman may not get his powers to work in a different than DC universe. Who knows all those other DC characters how they meddled with everything even the Sun.

I'm not arguing the effect of how he gets his powers.

I'm arguing the effect of his heat vision. It's based on the laws of physics that a laser projects extreme heat and will cause the hit object or person to burn, melt, etc.

Heat, burning, melting are all universal concepts that I feel can be applied in ANY universe unless specified.

It's based on science.

The Colt is based on magic. Magic is almost never the same or universal in any universe.

Thus I feel it's not necessarily transferable.

We also do not have any evidence that colt can not affect other universe supernaturals/anythings.

We don't have evidence that it can affect other universe supernatural 'anythings'....

It's a logic deadlock at best.

[Bullets& Bracelets]

Ah like the (bad ) superman example i provided. In Dc universe the Sun can power up superman. Maybe Dc universe Suns are different than our own.

But the effect of a heated laser would be universal concept.

Namely burning, melting, etc.

True, maybe in one reality a Sun is just two atoms to the left than what requires Superman to power up.

[Bullets& Bracelets]

No, that is not like anything you said in any way whatsoever.

Again, clearly I argued the point in wrong fashion than intended. My train of thought regarding the Colt's potency is now re-clarified to make my argument.

It was pointed out the variety in things the Colt has killed. That resultingly there is no particular reason to say it would be any less potent on any other sort of being of similar heft in power to the things it has killed. Since if it can kill across variety, the only arguement becomes trying to say something would be too powerful for it to affect.

In response to that sort of thing being pointed out, in order to dismiss it, you said this:
.

Again, you're using the basis of science against the Colt's potency.

It has nothing to do with how 'powerful' it is since it's magical/supernatural inclinations is entirely unique to it's universe.

The Colt has the magical/supernatural power to kill demons and monsters in the Supernatural universe.

However I can't in good faith transfer it to say the Harry Potter universe.

If the Colt was just a normal gun that acts within the laws of physics, than sure it could work on anything that's not bullet-proof in any universe since I believe that the kinetic impact of a bullet is universal. Laws of Motion and such.

But the Colt is clearly not a normal gun and is magical/supernatural in nature. It's based on the magical/supernatural laws in THAT universe.

Magic and Supernatural are NOT universal in concept. It's different for each universe.

I can't in good faith say with certainty that a Harry Potter anti-demon spell would work on Lord of the Rings demon when they're completely different in context.

[Pendaran]

Again, clearly I argued the point in wrong fashion than intended. My train of thought regarding the Colt's potency is now re-clarified to make my argument.




Again, you're using the basis of science against the Colt's potency.

It has nothing to do with how 'powerful' it is since it's magical/supernatural inclinations is entirely unique to it's universe.

The Colt has the magical/supernatural power to kill demons and monsters in the Supernatural universe.

However I can't in good faith transfer it to say the Harry Potter universe.

If the Colt was just a normal gun that acts within the laws of physics, than sure it could work on anything that's not bullet-proof in any universe since I believe that the kinetic impact of a bullet is universal. Laws of Motion and such.

But the Colt is clearly not a normal gun and is magical/supernatural in nature. It's based on the magical/supernatural laws in THAT universe.

Magic and Supernatural are NOT universal in concept. It's different for each universe.

I can't in good faith say with certainty that a Harry Potter anti-demon spell would work on Lord of the Rings demon when they're completely different in context.

..... when the Colt has shown it can kill things that are not demons, what does this have to do with anything whatsoever?

You again defaulted to "stuff that works on demons in one place won't work on demons in other!"

Fortunately for the Colt, /it doesn't just work on demons/.

The entire basis of this board is comparative power and actual accomplishments. If the Colt has actually shown it can kill things of various stripes, it has shown it can kill things of various stripes.

This is why for instance, since we're on Harry Potter for some reason, if we put him or as is more popular for some reason, Voldemort, in a scenario in some other universe and we want to go "Avadra Kevadra would not be worth shit" we don't go "omg fundamental underlying different principles", we show what the person we want to say it would be worth shit on has done, to demonstrate why this thing would be no different.

Anything else, is magical rocks that repel tigers.

Why /wouldn't/ the Colt work in the Buffyverse? Can you cite where it shows that the Buffyverse would prevent the Colt from working?

[Pendaran]

In fact, I'll give you the one time what you're trying to say /actually works/.

In the Marvel Universe, we actually /do/ get the fundamental laws of their reality about one thing spelled out in explicit, exacting, detail for what works, and what does not, time travel. We even get what it takes in order to actually override those laws (Doctor Doom's intellect, or a cosmic scale artifact like the Forever Crystal).

Thus, when someone wants to say that some other dude's time travel will override the laws of Marvel time travel and thereby affect someone from their timeline, we can go "They can duplicate the effects of the Forever Crystal? They are otherwise as smart as Doctor Doom?"

But for what you're talking about, /you're just making things up, ultimately/. There is nothing to point to for why it would not work.

Works on other things not demons? It totally works on other things not demons.

Only works because of Jebus, and Jebus isn't in the Buffyverse so there? Nope, that's not why it works.

Without some actual cosmic law of spelled out metaphysics to point to to differentiate for why it would not work on the things there, which you don't have, the Colt is the Colt is the Colt. You are left with "thing X is too powerful for that shit", which is the thing we are left with in almost /all/ debates and scenario discussions, except for one thing, Marvel time travel, and even /that/ really does boil down the same thing.

[Dr Cthulwho]

You're misunderstanding me.

Let's say I create a fictional show that has a fictional character that has a sword that has the power to kill demons. It works on any demon on the show.

I cannot in good faith tranfer it's potency to another show with completely different context of demons.

The Colt's power is too ill-defined in what it can and cannot do. Saying it can 'kill monsters' isn't enough to say it can kill any monster in any universe.

What's a 'monster'?

I imagine it depends on extrapolating the feats given. The Cult is a weapon shown to be lethal to beings that are

A. nigh unkillable (demons)
or
B. killable via very specific weaknesses

Vampires can only be killed in a certain way, demons can't be, they can only be banished back to hell (though as we go on we find there is power that can kill them). Presumably it could have killed, say, the Trickster, who has a specific weakness as well. Or a werewolf.

As you have pointed out Supernatural demons are far more "spirit" based in nature. Without a host they are black mist. Buffy Demons meanwhile are flesh and blood (or equivalents of that).

Is it conceivable if you shoot a Buffy-verse demon with a weapon mystically empowered to kill supernatural beings - including demonic spirit based beings - it might work against that rather more mortal, physical demon? Many types of which can be killed in rather mundane ways (with swords or fire or neck breaking etc). Just like it was shown to work just as well against rather non-demonic vampires?

Compare that with the SoK guns which killed depowered god (and a lot more besides) but were shown not to work on vampires.

The colt probably has the same limitations as Ruby's knife - it doesn't hurt angels, and wouldn't affect someone too powerful.

Is Yoda or the Count from Sesame Street a monster?

Well, Yoda is flesh and blood - shoot him and he'd die like a human does when shot. The Count... well, I don't see why not.

[The Watcher]

The Colt will work against Buffyverse creatures and entities. There has been no evidence presented from either show which indicates that it would not.

All assertions that the Colt would not work against Buffyverse beings shall cease.

[Halcyon]

One stumbling block for any friendly relationship between Buffy and the Winchesters is that Dean & Sam don't share Buffy's view on killing Humans.

[Lasko8734]

Sam and Dean can waste Angelus easily