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  1. #1
    BANNED WorstThingUS's Avatar
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    Default Does Dick Grayson Suffer From "Superman Syndrome"?

    One of the best things about Chuck Dixon's Nightwing run is that Dick Grayson was every inch the accomplished professional someone who'd been trained by The Batman and doing this all his life should be. Razor sharp mind, physical perfection...he cut through bad guys like a hot knife through butter. They were never pushovers, but when he won, it was how he should win, a seemingly effortless combination of brains and brawn. Even Devin Grayson's run had him face off to essentially his entire rogues gallery and he beat the crap out of them, though pushed to his limits. The nearest pop culture comparison I can make is James Bond. A seasoned professional who's the best there is at what he does. It makes me wonder if it's too much for some writers the way Superman is too much? How can you write for someone who can essentially do anything? It really comes to mind now that he's Batman and he should really be a greater Batman than what we've been shown. Though I found Prodigal, his first tenure as Batman, a little dull, he still kicked ass and took names with a smooth efficiency. Morrison seems to get this, but it occasionally gets lost behind "Oh, I never wanted this" whining (I don't read Winnick, period). More than ever I now miss Chuck Dixon because he could truly do a Dick Grayson-as-Batman justice.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
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    Though I'm liking the Batman title, I admit that Morrison on B&R and Dixon on Batman would be an interesting dichotomy. Really, Dixon on anything is worth checking out. Sadly, I don't think he'll be back at DC again. It's too bad.

  3. #3
    Senior Member colossus34's Avatar
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    WOW umm did you read the same Nightwing run that I did??? Grayson essentially failed in every endeaver in the entire 150 plus series... He was always upstaged by some mary sue or random new hero that the flavor of the month writer wanted to "look cool" by besting him. Dixon had it with Conner Hawke, Wolfman had Vigilante and Devin had Trantula. Hell even random joe bloe cops use to knock him in the back of the head!

    He had some small victories here and their but overall he should have been shown to be WAAY more competant than he was in his series. Here's hoping the Batman tenure will solidify him as a competant A-list hero

  4. #4
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    One of the best things about Chuck Dixon's Nightwing run is that Dick Grayson was every inch the accomplished professional someone who'd been trained by The Batman and doing this all his life should be. Razor sharp mind, physical perfection...he cut through bad guys like a hot knife through butter.
    What are you talking about? Until the VERY LAST arc of Dixon's run, Nightwing never defeated one of his major villains SOLO. That was one of the major complaints of the whole arc, Nightwing was jobbed out way too much. He was totally inept in the entire Dixon run.

  5. #5
    BANNED WorstThingUS's Avatar
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    I remember Batman sending him in to subdue a prison solo and him doing just that. I remember every assassin Blockbuster sending after him having his ass handed to him. I remember Shrike having every advantage and still ending up with his d**k in the dirt. What book were you guys reading?

  6. #6
    Life Sucks! OverMaster's Avatar
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    Dixon's Nightwing was very much like Spider-Man, in that he always got beaten around by the villains, but finally always would find a way to beat them back and be awesome at it, making his actual victories all that much sweeter.

  7. #7
    The sole NW/WW shipper Redem's Avatar
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    I think you can classify Nightwing level of skill as "A Batman you can punch"
    Has to remember his suggestion for the traitor game

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  8. #8
    BANNED WorstThingUS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverMaster View Post
    Dixon's Nightwing was very much like Spider-Man, in that he always got beaten around by the villains, but finally always would find a way to beat them back and be awesome at it, making his actual victories all that much sweeter.
    Thank you! That's the book I was reading! It was three steps:

    1) I don't know you, you get a shot in
    2) I'm feeling you out, you get a shot in
    3) I know you, your ass is mine.

    His dismantling of Shrike is a classic example of this. And the second encounter they just get served because he knows them already.

  9. #9
    Member AiyokuSama's Avatar
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    I don't think that Dick suffers from "superman syndrome" and that he DOESN'T is a reason many of his fans gripe about him being punked.

    Dick IS good. Really good. But not Superman and not perfect. He slips up. Overestimates. Underestimates. Focuses on the wrong detail. And so on. In other words, he's human. But he also keeps going until the job is done, which is what makes him a hero. It's also why I enjoy him as a character.
    "Well, I will say one thing about your night time activities--you do tend to antagonize the most interesting people." -Alfred to Bruce, Legends of the Dark Knight #24

  10. #10
    Haughty & Naughty Mia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverMaster View Post
    Dixon's Nightwing was very much like Spider-Man, in that he always got beaten around by the villains, but finally always would find a way to beat them back and be awesome at it, making his actual victories all that much sweeter.
    I agree with this wholeheartedly. I loved it that Dixon's NW fought for all of his victories. It made him far more interesting to read about. Than some quasi omnipotent god who could kick everyone's tail and never broke a sweat.
    "People who believe they are successful, carry themselves well."-Peggy Klaus

  11. #11
    Super Amalgamated! Alan2099's Avatar
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    I agree with this wholeheartedly. I loved it that Dixon's NW fought for all of his victories. It made him far more interesting to read about. Than some quasi omnipotent god who could kick everyone's tail and never broke a sweat.
    That one of the big reasons I tend to like the character more than Batman most of the time.
    Highly Evolved Creature Totally Orientated on Revenge.

  12. #12
    Senior Member colossus34's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorstThingUS View Post
    I remember Batman sending him in to subdue a prison solo and him doing just that. I remember every assassin Blockbuster sending after him having his ass handed to him. I remember Shrike having every advantage and still ending up with his d**k in the dirt. What book were you guys reading?
    Yea except every assasiain Blockbuster sent was a z-lister that Batman would have sneezed on and beaten with his eyes closed... Shrike?!? Please, I would have loved to see him turned into a great villian but he was never built up to be a formidable foe and was later shown to be one shotted by the likes of batgirl etc....

    Let's face it Nightwng has almost NO formidable victories in his entire run of his series, in fact his entire series was him jobbing out to make others look cool(batgirl,vigilante,conner hawke,trantuala etc) or Dixon's way of making him "relatable" by making him get knocked in the back of the head or beaten on by z-listers.

  13. #13
    The sole NW/WW shipper Redem's Avatar
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    Also Dick can't do "crazy prepare" I'll add
    Has to remember his suggestion for the traitor game

    #17! RED/MRF/NKA/AMD/RZL/SHP/RHN/MIB/VF/ALC/ NWG/MN/HW

    can you crack the code?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by colossus34 View Post
    Yea except every assasiain Blockbuster sent was a z-lister that Batman would have sneezed on and beaten with his eyes closed... Shrike?!? Please, I would have loved to see him turned into a great villian but he was never built up to be a formidable foe and was later shown to be one shotted by the likes of batgirl etc....
    They went out of their way to make Shrike formidable given his appearance in the Robin Year One mini showing him to have trained as an assassin as long as Dick has trained as a hero.

    Quote Originally Posted by colossus34 View Post
    Let's face it Nightwng has almost NO formidable victories in his entire run of his series, in fact his entire series was him jobbing out to make others look cool(batgirl,vigilante,conner hawke,trantuala etc) or Dixon's way of making him "relatable" by making him get knocked in the back of the head or beaten on by z-listers.
    Batgirl and Conner are clearly established as martial artists on Shiva's level which is above even Batman. I don't believe in fanwank. He shouldn't be a better fighter than them anymore than they should be better gymnasts than him. And on what planet did mentally unhinged rapist murderer Tarantula look look cool!?! Vigilante, however, was an absolute disgrace. What Batman did to him in Gotham Underground is exactly what Nightwing should have done to him.

  15. #15
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    I remember Batman sending him in to subdue a prison solo and him doing just that. I remember every assassin Blockbuster sending after him having his ass handed to him. I remember Shrike having every advantage and still ending up with his d**k in the dirt. What book were you guys reading?
    I remember him needing Superman's help to get the edge on him. He NEVER beat Blockbuster solo in his own book.

    I remember him needing Black Canary coming to his rescue against Shrike.

    I remember him having huge trouble with Nite-Wing, a villain who was nothing more than street-thug trained.

    Thank you! That's the book I was reading! It was three steps:
    There's a HUGE difference in Spider-Man and Superman. If you had said Spiderman-like in the beginning, you'd probably get less of an argument....
    Last edited by titanfan; 10-23-2009 at 03:05 PM.

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