Black Widow Appreciation

[Hrist]

Hi Hrist,
Do you feel that we might see more Black Widow and Spider-Man team up stories in the future? Could you ever see those two in a mutual relationship in the same manner as Ms. Marvel or Silver Sable?

I imagine that team-up stories will always be a possibility. I doubt they'll continue in any frequency, but Spider-man teams up with everyone for an arc or two now and then. I don't see why Natasha would be much different on that score!

I don't think pairing her up with Spider-man, either as an ambiguously romantic interest or as a simple recurring platonic friends character, really brings anything to Natasha but another place to cameo. And she has plenty of places to cameo already— Avengers, Iron Man, Captain America, Wolverine, that's most of Marvel's A-list franchises already, plus her long history in Daredevil. I don't see how learning to respect Spider-man's abilities is a compelling arc for her character, since I really doubt she honestly disrespects him anyway. And, again, there are plenty of characters Natasha already has a more intimate, personal connection with, it's not as though we never get to see that side of her. Meanwhile, I can't imagine Peter would care overmuch about becoming friends with her? He has a rich and expansive supporting cast already, and established relationships with Ms. Marvel and Silver Sable that are getting some play, now. I don't see what Natasha would bring that pre-established relationships don't, I suppose.

[rogerio]

Natasha is way out of Pete's league...

[Darthfury78]

Natasha is way out of Pete's league...

So are Silver Sable, Ms. Marvel, and Black Cat.

[Darthfury78]

I imagine that team-up stories will always be a possibility. I doubt they'll continue in any frequency, but Spider-man teams up with everyone for an arc or two now and then. I don't see why Natasha would be much different on that score!

I don't think pairing her up with Spider-man, either as an ambiguously romantic interest or as a simple recurring platonic friends character, really brings anything to Natasha but another place to cameo. And she has plenty of places to cameo already— Avengers, Iron Man, Captain America, Wolverine, that's most of Marvel's A-list franchises already, plus her long history in Daredevil. I don't see how learning to respect Spider-man's abilities is a compelling arc for her character, since I really doubt she honestly disrespects him anyway. And, again, there are plenty of characters Natasha already has a more intimate, personal connection with, it's not as though we never get to see that side of her. Meanwhile, I can't imagine Peter would care overmuch about becoming friends with her? He has a rich and expansive supporting cast already, and established relationships with Ms. Marvel and Silver Sable that are getting some play, now. I don't see what Natasha would bring that per-established relationships don't, I suppose.

I was referring to a professional relationship between Spider-Man x Black Widow in storyline that are not usually covered in ASM. And there are a few things that Natasha could bring into a mutual friendship with Peter Parker that the others can't provide, such as obtaining classified information on his parents role with the CIA. As for Black Widow's long term relationship with Daredevil, that role could have easily gone to Spider-Man around that time instead of Matt. But I think that The Black Cat has moved into Black Widow's former position now as DD crime fighting partner. Thus, the reason why I would love to see more Black Widow and Spider-Man team-up are for the occasional espionage adventures that they could do together. Especially if it involves some of Spider-Man's Rogue Galleries of enemies in classified missions in area locations like China, Russia, and The Middle East. Those are the sorts of stuff that the Black Widow could invite Spider-Man to assist her with. After the Ends of Earth storyline has concluded, do you think that it would bring Silver Sable, Black Widow, and Spider-Man closer together as mutual friends who could be there for one another on occasion?

[rogerio]

So are Silver Sable, Ms. Marvel, and Black Cat.

and her, of course.
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.comicsall...ane-watson.jpg

[Hrist]

I was referring to a professional relationship between Spider-Man x Black Widow in storyline that are not usually covered in ASM. And there are a few things that Natasha could bring into a mutual friendship with Peter Parker that the others can't provide, such as obtaining classified information on his parents role with the CIA. As for Black Widow's long term relationship with Daredevil, that role could have easily gone to Spider-Man around that time instead of Matt. But I think that The Black Cat has moved into Black Widow's former position now as DD crime fighting partner. Thus, the reason why I would love to see more Black Widow and Spider-Man team-up are for the occasional espionage adventures that they could do together. Especially if it involves some of Spider-Man's Rogue Galleries of enemies in classified missions in area locations like China, Russia, and The Middle East. Those are the sorts of stuff that the Black Widow could invite Spider-Man to assist her with. After the Ends of Earth storyline has concluded, do you think that it would bring Silver Sable, Black Widow, and Spider-Man closer together as mutual friends who could be there for one another on occasion?

There are lots of people who could give him information on his parent's spy days— Steve Rogers or Nick Fury, for example. The thing about spy missions is that they're super easy to set up, you don't need a previously established relationship to make that work. "You just say, Character X, Character Y, I have a mission for you." You don't need set-up. That's why Bendis removed Nick from the MU for a while, to get rid of that writer crutch. I've already said that kind of thing could happen, and that's fine, there are probably a few good stories in there. But it's not something that really needs or justifies and ongoing character direction. Pete isn't Pete if he's out of New York all the time.

I don't think Black Cat has usurped Natasha's role in Daredevil at all. Do you understand the role she plays in that book? Natasha is Matt's ex-girlfriend and his ex-partner, the one who got away and the one long-term love interest that isn't dead or insane or evil. Spider-man is Daredevil's best friend, and Foggy Nelson is Matt Murdock's best friend, but Natasha is the one person who really knows them both, if that makes sense. Black Cat had sex with Daredevil to try to steal something from him! It's a completely different dynamic.

I also explained why Black Widow couldn't have hooked up with Peter in the 1970s the way she did with Matt. That was an attempt to revitalize the flagging sales on the Daredevil book— they also considered merging Daredevil with Iron Man. It resulted in a complete status quo change for Matt, moving him away from his supporting cast to San Francisco, and retitling the book Daredevil and the Black Widow. Amazing Spider-man did not need to be drastically retooled. I also explained that Natasha and Matt's skillsets are more complementary, as they are both very low-powered fighters, and Natasha has her specific gadgets and Matt has his radar powers. Natasha's gadgets more or less let her emulate Peter's abilities, but not as well! That works fine when she is fighting enemy agents in other corners of the shared universe, or when she's paired up with Hawkeye, who has a similar power level but a different gadget. When she's next to Spider-man though, she looks redundant. Having her hook up with Spider-man in the Bronze Age instead of Daredevil would have absolutely destroyed her credibility as an independent heroine. Hell, hooking her up with Daredevil almost did that. And it would have upset the balance of a Spider-man book that was doing perfectly well. Yes, they could have done it, but they could have killed Natasha, they could have turned her into a were-tiger… could have isn't much of an argument.

I think Ends of the Earth is shaping up to be an important arc for Spider-man's relationship with Silver Sable. I think, with her country getting destroyed, her good will towards him might be tested in the concluding issues. I don't think it's changed anything between Peter and Natasha; they have barely conversed despite fighting next to each other for two issues so far. She's been very much the third wheel.

[Darthfury78]

I think Ends of the Earth is shaping up to be an important arc for Spider-man's relationship with Silver Sable. I think, with her country getting destroyed, her good will towards him might be tested in the concluding issues. I don't think it's changed anything between Peter and Natasha; they have barely conversed despite fighting next to each other for two issues so far. She's been very much the third wheel.

The conversations between Black Widow and Spider-Man might increased in ASM #687. And I am well aware of her importance to Daredevil. The thing is that it would be cool to see some increased interaction between Black Widow and Spider-Man in future team-up stories than what we've seen of her. I still feel that she should have been one of Spider-Man's first heroine partner in the 1970's. I enjoy their interaction in the classic Marvel Team-up stories. But I have never seen that in the pages of ASM around that time. And I did mention a professional relationship.

I also remember when Black Cat was De-powered, she used to use has her specific gadgets and while Peter had his Spider Sense. Felicia's gadgets more or less let her emulate Peter's abilities as well! All of that changed when she got her Bad Luck powers restored. But, I still feel that Felicia and Matt will get along great. I simply want to see Spider-Man and Black Widow work together more often because I like his interaction with her.

As for Silver Sable, we'll have to wait and see about that one when the next issue comes out. But Doc Ock is now #1 on her hit list.

[Hrist]

I also remember when Black Cat was De-powered, she used to use has her specific gadgets and while Peter had his Spider Sense. Felicia's gadgets more or less let her emulate Peter's abilities as well! All of that changed when she got her Bad Luck powers restored. But, I still feel that Felicia and Matt will get along great. I simply want to see Spider-Man and Black Widow work together more often because I like his interaction with her.

This isn't so, though. Black Widow has a spider-theme, wrist gauntlets that launch swinging lines, and the ability to scale walls; moreover, she is a superhero. Felicia is cat themed, and is a thief. One of the key points of interest in her relationship with Spider-man is that their goals and motivations often clash, because she's a criminal and he catches them.

I know you are obviously very interested in seeing Spider-man form mutual relationships with various superhero women, okay, whatever, I'm not trying to stop you. But it's not something I'm particularly interested in, and not something canon has convinced me is interesting. So no, it's not something I particularly want as a Black Widow fan. I want I've explained why, a bunch of times, my position isn't going to change unless something in the comics does.

[Darthfury78]

This isn't so, though. Black Widow has a spider-theme, wrist gauntlets that launch swinging lines, and the ability to scale walls; moreover, she is a superhero. Felicia is cat themed, and is a thief. One of the key points of interest in her relationship with Spider-man is that their goals and motivations often clash, because she's a criminal and he catches them.

I know you are obviously very interested in seeing Spider-man form mutual relationships with various superhero women, okay, whatever, I'm not trying to stop you. But it's not something I'm particularly interested in, and not something canon has convinced me is interesting. So no, it's not something I particularly want as a Black Widow fan. I want I've explained why, a bunch of times, my position isn't going to change unless something in the comics does.

I only wanted to see Spidey establish a mutual relationship with six super heroines, which include The Black Widow. And the potential team-up stories between Spidey and Black Widow isn't going to be that obvious to affect her standing role in her own right as that partnership would only pop up every now and then, just like Daredevil. The one thing that I would love to see is a team-up story between The Black Widow, Spider-Woman, and Spider-Man against a common enemy. They are members of The Avengers. But that book focus on too many characters and Spidey and Black Widow are on different teams. They have him stuck with The New Avengers while she's always with The Secret Avengers. It would be cool to see them on the same team together.

You made your point clear, and I respect that. It's just I want to see more adventures between her and Spider-Man in either ASM or Avenging Spider-Man. I am not advocating for Spider-Man to be a supporting cast member in her own world. I do believe that once Ends of Earth storyline has concluded that some other writer might want to do a team-up adventure between Spider-Man x The Black Widow. That's what I'm trying to say.

[rogerio]

II would love to see is a team-up story between The Black Widow, Spider-Woman, and Spider-Man against a common enemy.

I would buy it.

[Libaax]

I guess, with Brubaker, he's basically writing what his Black Widow stories would be, right now, except making them Bucky stories. (The whole Winter Soldier thing is all basically stuff and themes that were explored previously in Natasha stories, as is the whole "many Winter Soldiers" angle.) I wouldn't say no to a Brubaker Black Widow book, but if I were going to launch a Black Widow ongoing right now, I would try to make it feel different than Winter Soldier, in tone and scope. So, in that sense, Brubaker might not be the best choice.

Are you saying you dont want Black Widow series as spy comic ? Or you dont want it to be cold war era like Winter Soldier ?

Other than Brubaker who is great at spy stories Greg Rucka is my dream Black Widow writer. He could write her like he did Queen & Country which were awesome series.

Frankly i wont mind top level writers like those doing even in a mini right now. Give a story from her Point of view a mini doesnt matter.

[tigerkaya]

[tigerkaya]

[tigerkaya]

[Abdulabulbul_Amir]

Black Widow was done well in The Avengers.

I quite enjoyed her scenes with Cap.