The Mephisto is not the devil topic (IS TOO!) - The Mephisto Mega Thread

[Farmernudie]

The problem here, besides some people taking something simple and making it overly complicated, and ignoring the obvious that Marvel and Joe Quesada have stated, is that they're trying to argue that Phisty isn't the actual biblical satan.

Well, yar, this is the Marvel Universe, not the Bible.

Stan didn't want the actual satan in his "funny comics"....as he stated.

Again, i do not understand, the lengths, some people are trying to go, to undo and argue with Joe Quesada and the how and why he made his trigger event this way, and the "wording".

Marvel calls Phisty the devil all the time.

If people have a problem with it, they should really take it up with a letter writing campaign to Marvel, if they want a politically correct and consistant wording of who marvel consdiers their (biblical) devil at any one time or story, or histoircally, and for them to clean up their wording and story choice consistancy, if it matters that much to them.

I mean, really, why would joe have picked one of these lesser known demon devilish types, for his devil deal?

He said he wanted even the simplest neophyte to pick up the comic book and recognize it was the devil, understand it, without having to explain it, and historically Phisty has always been that. thus the closest looks to the "devil" hisotrically.

And yet while the neophytes Joe talks about it, do understand the obvious he wanted them to, some other fans seem to be getting caught up in the wording or if there is a new (biblical) more-devil-like creature in Ghost Rider or something.

[Farmernudie]

But what would you call Zarathos,Shuma-Gorath,Chton and Set that are more powerfull mystical villains that Mephisto ever was in stories and apeared in more stories that Mephisto then?

Well, again, Joe says:

JOE QUESADA: As far as I know, Mephisto is one of the most powerful bad guys around. Some describe him as the Devil, some as a character that thinks he's the devil -- he's been open for interpretation for some time now.

[whiteshark]

The problem here, besides some people taking something simple and making it overly complicated, and ignoring the obvious that Marvel and Joe Quesada have stated, is that they're trying to argue that Phisty isn't the actual biblical satan.

Well, yar, this is the Marvel Universe, not the Bible.

Stan didn't want the actual satan in his "funny comics"....as he stated.

Again, i do not understand, the lengths, some people are trying to go, to undo and argue with Joe Quesada and the how and why he made his trigger event this way, and the "wording".

Marvel calls Phisty the devil all the time.

If people have a problem with it, they should really take it up with a letter writing campaign to Marvel, if they want a politically correct and consistant wording of who marvel consdiers their (biblical) devil at any one time or story, or histoircally, and for them to clean up their wording and story choice consistancy, if it matters that much to them.

I mean, really, why would joe have picked one of these lesser known demon devilish types, for his devil deal?

He said he wanted even the simplest neophyte to pick up the comic book and recognize it was the devil, understand it, without having to explain it, and historically Phisty has always been that. thus the closest looks to the "devil" hisotrically.

And yet while the neophytes Joe talks about it, do understand the obvious he wanted them to, some other fans seem to be getting caught up in the wording or if there is a new (biblical) more-devil-like creature in Ghost Rider or something.

I think that the only problem is that some fans are so worked up by thinking that Spider-Man made a deal with a devil,that they wont concede the point that are several other mysical villains in Marvel stories that are more the "devil" like Set,Zarathos,,Chton and Lucifer that Mephisto ever was.

And they just don`t want to recognize it because it would hurt their arguments that Spider-Man made a deal with the "devil".

[Farmernudie]

I think that the only problem is that some fans are so worked up by thinking that Spider-Man made a deal with a devil,that they wont concede the point that are several other mysical villains in Marvel stories that are more the "devil" like Set,Zarathos,,Chton and Lucifer that Mephisto ever was.

And they just don`t want to recognize it because it would hurt their arguments that Spider-Man made a deal with the "devil".

Huh?????

Why does one have to concede that there are other mystical villians?

How does that change the devil deal at all, in any way, and Joe's explanantions for how's and whys of it??

How does it hurt Joe's arguements? His reasoning all sounds simple and easy to understand, to me, anyway.

That's like saying...spidey and venom just battled it out, but fans have to now admit there are other symbiotes, it has nothing at all to do with the actual story fans are talking about.

There are other Spider-men/people too. Does that hurt YOUR arguement?

[Farmernudie]

Whiteshark: ...that are several other mysical villains in Marvel stories that are more the "devil" like Set,Zarathos,,Chton and Lucifer that Mephisto ever was.

What is it,...a beauty contest or something here?

Is there a devil-like rating scale?

I mean, Joe said," it is open for interprestation whether he is the devil or not", and that he is one of the most powerful evil villians he knows.

If you wish Joe had put Chton (how do you pronounce that and who is the heck is he...lol?) into OMD to make it better for you, that is fine, and you can have that opinion, but what does it matter or change?

OMD is what it is. What is the goal in trying to reduce Phisty's Proposal and reducing Joe's reasoning?

[whiteshark]

What is it,...a beauty contest or something here?

Is there a devil-like rating scale?

I mean, Joe said," it is open for interprestation whether he is the devil or not", and that he is one of the most powerful evil villians he knows.

If you wish Joe had put Chton (how do you pronounce that and who is the heck is he...lol?) into OMD to make it better for you, that is fine, and you can have that opinion, but what does it matter or change?

OMD is what it is. What is the goal in trying to reduce Phisty's Proposal and reducing Joe's reasoning?

Any villain or hero is open to interpretation.

And OMD is a story in which Spider-Man make a deal with Mephisto to save Aunt May life.It is just that.

The point is you can not call Mephisto the "devil" if there are other more powerfull and evil mystical villains that Mephisto ever was that could be called the "devil" easier that Mephisto.
And just because you don`t know who those mystical villains are,it doesn mean that they don`t exist in the stories as Set,Zarathos,Chton and Lucifer.

[BlackToe]

Ah, well this is where perspective comes into play. The devil in christian concept isn't alpha totemic evil but rather is a fallen angel, a much lesser being in the grand scheme of things that to us puny humans looks pretty powerful. Hollywood likes to show the devil as pretty powerful, equal to an Evil Supreme Being. So its perspective. There have been varying depictions throughout literature.

In the Marvel Universe, he's similarly been varyingly depicted. But nowhere in any Marvel comics has Satan even been shown to exist, that I am aware. Devils and demons are all over the place though. The devil - who's to say who that is or is not.

But the evil one of these does is a matter of perspective. To someone like Mary Jane Parker or Aunt May, both humans, Mephisto wouldn't be seen as anything but the devil.

Hollywood is Hollywood though. It doesnt have to mirror the Christian devil. The red horned hoofed temptation form of the devil is extremely outdated in my opinion. Lovecraftian mythos I think, makes the Christian devil look like a fossil.

(Marvel Satan by the way: http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/mardukkurios.htm)

What is it,...a beauty contest or something here?

Is there a devil-like rating scale?

I mean, Joe said," it is open for interprestation whether he is the devil or not", and that he is one of the most powerful evil villians he knows.

If you wish Joe had put Chton (how do you pronounce that and who is the heck is he...lol?) into OMD to make it better for you, that is fine, and you can have that opinion, but what does it matter or change?

OMD is what it is. What is the goal in trying to reduce Phisty's Proposal and reducing Joe's reasoning?

Read more Marvel comics.

[carabas]

White Shark, dude, you are not making even a tiny little bit of sense.

'The Devil' is the horned red guy with the pitch fork that rules hell and likes to tempt people out of their souls. He is not defined as the most powerful anything.

[Farmernudie]

Any villain or hero is open to interpretation.

And OMD is a story in which Spider-Man make a deal with Mephisto to save Aunt May life.It is just that.

The point is you can not call Mephisto the "devil" if there are other more powerfull and evil mystical villains that Mephisto ever was that could be called the "devil" easier that Mephisto.
.

Wow...you'll have to let Joe know of your dissatisfaction and anger with him calling Phisty the devil and his reasoning for using him for the devil deal in his story then.

And....Can you argue Spidey is the devil then, using your logic?

JOE QUESADA: As far as I know, Mephisto is one of the most powerful bad guys around. Some describe him as the Devil, some as a character that thinks he's the devil -- he's been open for interpretation for some time now.

And again, Joe tried to keep it SO simple...so even a person picking up a comic for the first time in their life, would have no problem understanding that Pete was making a deal with the devil. It was a classic Faustian Pact. Joe has spelled it out int he story, and spelled it out in his quotes talking about the story.

JOE QUESADA: "...Let's face it, this is quite simply the kind of thing the devil would do. Also, from a neophyte's point of view, a new fan picking this up, it's very clear who Mephisto is." ~ Joe Q

Could he have made it any simpler or obvious? Obviously not. Joe calls him the devil. You say he cannot.
Joe says he is one of the most powerful villians he knows, you say there are more powerful, more qualified people for his story. It seems like you have lots of qualms with Joe's story (OMD), who he chose to be in it, and why, and how he talks about it.

[The Shadow]

Wow...you'll have to let Joe know of your dissatisfaction and anger with him calling Phisty the devil and his reasoning for using him for the devil deal in his story then.

And....Can you argue Spidey is the devil then, using your logic?

And again, Joe tried to keep it SO simple...so even a person picking up a comic for the first time in their life, would have no problem understanding that Pete was making a deal with the devil. It was a classic Faustian Pact. Joe has spelled it out int he story, and spelled it out in his quotes talking about the story.

Could he have made it any simpler or obvious? Obviously not. Joe calls him the devil. You say he cannot.
Joe says he is one of the most powerful villians he knows, you say there are more powerful, more qualified people for his story. It seems like you have lots of qualms with Joe's story (OMD), who he chose to be in it, and why, and how he talks about it.

I'm just curious but why are you on such a crusade?

[Farmernudie]

I've been wondering the exact same thing of others on here!??

[Patrick Hultquist]

I'm just curious but why are you on such a crusade?

Puhl-lease, buddy. You are the last person to ask someone else that question. Especially considering the thread topic. You are Captain Derailer whenever someone brings up the "deal with the devil". Or do you deny this?

[The Shadow]

Puhl-lease, buddy. You are the last person to ask someone else that question. Especially considering the thread topic. You are Captain Derailer whenever someone brings up the "deal with the devil". Or do you deny this?

For the past week, other than pointing out a lack of quotes in posts when have I mentioned Mephisto not being the devil? I did in the rules thread as an example but that's it.

I know I won't change anyone's mind and neither will Farmer change mine. I've moved on really.

[coconutphone]

I've been wondering the exact same thing of others on here!??

Seriously.

[Scott Taylor]

Hollywood is Hollywood though. It doesnt have to mirror the Christian devil. The red horned hoofed temptation form of the devil is extremely outdated in my opinion. Lovecraftian mythos I think, makes the Christian devil look like a fossil.

(Marvel Satan by the way: http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/mardukkurios.htm)

That guy is a demon. Certainly not anything remotely similar to what you would be describing as an all-powerful entity that you are describing. Which, for the devil or Satan, is right in line with the christian concept.

Mephisto is still the devil.