The Mephisto is not the devil topic (IS TOO!) - The Mephisto Mega Thread

[ShaggyB]

No what I bolded & argued agianst was that he couldn't take a soul without a deal which is why I pointed out the example with Surfer's parents....I didn't mean to specify Thor & Surfer which is why I talked about Surfer's parents with regards to their souls and not Thor & Surfer.....Also as you said Mephisto isn't the only demon who gets sinners soul so how is any soul automatically coming his way




EDIT: I basically bolded too much but I don't really see how you couldn't get that I was talking about Surfer's parents souls as opposed to Thor & Suffer himself.

because when you bolded it all it seemed you were trying to list a time he took some souls that he had no claim to, basically trying to counter the whole statement. The reality is suicide likely sent them to hell and Mephisto ended up with them.

Only souls he lays claim to via deals are directly coming his way. The rest of the sinners are divided amongst the hell lords. As to if they can claim certain ones from the general pool.... Never read anything to state they could or couldnt. Considering the demon deals.... one would think they would trade and fight amongst themselves over certain souls that were in the general pool.

[Scott Taylor]

Cosmic beings, heavenly forces, and other Hell Lords, as well as the rules governing his realm and the way his powers work.

Yes to the former, no to the latter. There are not any rules. Also, no one of those other beings has ever interfered with Mephisto over rules. When another like being interferes with him, its because he pissed them off somehow. He tugged on Superman's cape (I'll note that Superman also has no rules governing said tugging).

I'm sure you're not convinced, but that mainly has to do with you refuses to beleve the words of anyone that has disagreed with you. On that note, I don't believe you're not an aardvark.

I don't believe it for the same reasons I don't believe Aunt May has rules to follow about making wheatcakes. Show me that she has a wheatcake rule and doesn't just happen to like to make wheatcakes for Peter. Show me where Mephisto has rules to follow and doesn't just enjoy what he does. Marvel has published no set of devil rules, I don't think. As it is, I am definitely a not aardvark.

Order and rules don't make things good or evil. Not having rules just means chaos and disorder, not evil. Some of the evilest people in the world have followed "the rules."

Which has about as much to do with the topic as a bath party in Bangalore. Mephisto can act the way he does with or without rules. One does not necessitate the other.

So humans are gullible and believe he'll keep his word. okay. Let's go with that. Now the question is ... why is he making deals and pretending to honor them to begin with if he can just swoop in, snatch a soul, and leave without any consequences?

Why not? He says right there in OMD that he is doing it out of spite. Its not as if he needs marriage hamburgers every so often. He does what he does, the way he does them, out of spite. And other times out of a quest for power. Also, he did not honor the OMD deal. Not at all!

[CMBMOOL]

You know it's kinda of funny in a way considering what happen in the recent issue of Venom and what's coming up when Bunn takes over the character, makes me wonder if Flash is going to get see his family again in some way thanks to the likes of Mephisto.

[ShaggyB]

You know it's kinda of funny in a way considering what happen in the recent issue of Venom and what's coming up when Bunn takes over the character, makes me wonder if Flash is going to get see his family again in some way thanks to the likes of Mephisto.

How is that remotely mephisto's fault? Mephisto didnt help Jack and crew discover Flash's secret identity. Mephisto didnt put any of his loved ones in danger. It has absolutely nothing to do with Mephisto.

[ShaggyB]

Yes to the former, no to the latter. There are not any rules. Also, no one of those other beings has ever interfered with Mephisto over rules. When another like being interferes with him, its because he pissed them off somehow. He tugged on Superman's cape (I'll note that Superman also has no rules governing said tugging).



I don't believe it for the same reasons I don't believe Aunt May has rules to follow about making wheatcakes. Show me that she has a wheatcake rule and doesn't just happen to like to make wheatcakes for Peter. Show me where Mephisto has rules to follow and doesn't just enjoy what he does. Marvel has published no set of devil rules, I don't think. As it is, I am definitely a not aardvark.



Which has about as much to do with the topic as a bath party in Bangalore. Mephisto can act the way he does with or without rules. One does not necessitate the other.



Why not? He says right there in OMD that he is doing it out of spite. Its not as if he needs marriage hamburgers every so often. He does what he does, the way he does them, out of spite. And other times out of a quest for power. Also, he did not honor the OMD deal. Not at all!

and again.... if there were no rules and he could just take any soul he wanted... why does he not have Surfer's or Thor's? He desires them, yet he doesnt just take them. Why is that?

[Glynne Ainsworth]

and again.... if there were no rules and he could just take any soul he wanted... why does he not have Surfer's or Thor's? He desires them, yet he doesnt just take them. Why is that?

They are not dead?

[CMBMOOL]

How is that remotely mephisto's fault? Mephisto didnt help Jack and crew discover Flash's secret identity. Mephisto didnt put any of his loved ones in danger. It has absolutely nothing to do with Mephisto.

What I mean is given the whole "Circle of Four" arc and who was the bad guy for that event again ?

Also who is the first person that Bunn is going to be pitting Flash up against, and his unique connections again ?

So either way even if Mephisto wasn't involved in all of this, he is still connected to it all in some way or another. Am I right ?

[ShaggyB]

They are not dead?

if he doesnt have rules.... why would that matter?

[ShaggyB]

What I mean is given the whole "Circle of Four" arc and who was the bad guy for that event again ?

Also who is the first person that Bunn is going to be pitting Flash up against, and his unique connections again ?

So either way even if Mephisto wasn't involved in all of this, he is still connected to it all in some way or another. Am I right ?

no you are not right. Crime Master found out his info on Flash before Circle of Four and he told him he would use it against him if he didnt play by his rules. Flash didnt and tried to kill him.... So the danger his family is placed in has no connection to Mephisto at all. (and just as a fun note... the villain of Circle of Four was Blackheart not Mephisto)

[The Batman]

and again.... if there were no rules and he could just take any soul he wanted... why does he not have Surfer's or Thor's? He desires them, yet he doesnt just take them. Why is that?

If he can claim souls willy-nilly, why would he have bothered with the marriage deal? Why not just claim Aunt May's soul? It'd give him more power than the marriage did.

[Glynne Ainsworth]

if he doesnt have rules.... why would that matter?

then by that logic he may already have their souls and takes them when they die.

You're talking rules in a fluid make believe universe. Did Mephisto have any need for marriages before OMD?

[CMBMOOL]

no you are not right. Crime Master found out his info on Flash before Circle of Four and he told him he would use it against him if he didnt play by his rules. Flash didnt and tried to kill him.... So the danger his family is placed in has no connection to Mephisto at all. (and just as a fun note... the villain of Circle of Four was Blackheart not Mephisto)

Okay let me try a different approach to this...Blackheart is the alleged son of Mephisto who wishes to rise up against his father. Flash already had trouble with his own father and mother.

Flash's mother is dead thanks to the Fly, while in the midst of OMD Aunt May was nearly dead before Mephisto interned...What I'm trying to say is that although it may not happen, Mephisto "sort of" owes the heroes in Circle of Four for stopping his son in someway.

Even though they fought against their own daemons, they still saved the day...so in a weird way Mephisto owes them a favor or two.

Still, I know that this is a completely different situation than what Peter went through...right ?

I mean Flash mom was killed due to the Crime Master knowing his ID just like the Kingpin had Aunt May killed due to him knowing Spider-man ID.

Cullen Bunn is settng Flash Up against Hellstorm, a guy that has some mystical connections to Satan, if we are to believe.

So you can't say that after the current storyline that Flash is getting himself into some mystical stuff again that may or may not lead to him finding some way to bring his family back to life...right ?

Or at least some closure with his sister...right ?

That's what I'm trying to say.

[The Batman]

then by that logic he may already have their souls and takes them when they die.

You're talking rules in a fluid make believe universe. Did Mephisto have any need for marriages before OMD?

You're asking the wrong question, it's not about needing marriages but rather whether Mephisto was someone interested in doing things out of spite?

[ShaggyB]

Okay let me try a different approach to this...Blackheart is the alleged son of Mephisto who wishes to rise up against his father. Flash already had trouble with his own father and mother.

Flash's mother is dead thanks to the Fly, while in the midst of OMD Aunt May was nearly dead before Mephisto interned...What I'm trying to say is that although it may not happen, Mephisto "sort of" owes the heroes in Circle of Four for stopping his son in someway.

no he doesnt owe them anything. He gave them new bodies in exchange for future service. He owes them nothing, they owe him service.

Even though they fought against their own daemons, they still saved the day...so in a weird way Mephisto owes them a favor or two.

If he were a nice guy perhaps hed owe a thank you... but hes not so no, he owes them nothing more than what he gave them already.

Still, I know that this is a completely different situation than what Peter went through...right ?

I mean Flash mom was killed due to the Crime Master knowing his ID just like the Kingpin had Aunt May killed due to him knowing Spider-man ID.

Cullen Bunn is settng Flash Up against Hellstorm, a guy that has some mystical connections to Satan, if we are to believe.

He is Marduk Kurios's son. Marduk likes to call himself satan. Hence the name Son of Satan being one of Hellstorms alias.

So you can't say that after the current storyline that Flash is getting himself into some mystical stuff again that may or may not lead to him finding some way to bring his family back to life...right ?

Or at least some closure with his sister...right ?

That's what I'm trying to say.

I can say that he is headed into some mystical stuff, but that doesnt mean it will lead to his family nor does it mean that Mephisto is the cause of his families problems as you originally suggested.

[CMBMOOL]

Blast it, I really thought I was on to something here.