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  1. #2236
    Spider-man/DCU Moderator ShaggyB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlesthehammer View Post
    Wait, what? No it doesn't. Both count, one just is not consistent with previous characterizations. It may be OOC (alright, not may it is), but it still counts. You can't just say well it is out of character does not count (unfortunately). You can say its a bad story because of that though.
    you are misunderstanding. That quote came from Kevin posting something slott said about Carlie in regards to mj. Its not really relevant to the conversation. Just means slott agrees that mj is popular. (Doesnt mean "He" would be spited by Mephisto actions... so it really doesnt matte and has nothing to do with the continuity conversation)


    Though I just thought we agreed this was a stupid story that had everyone act out of character, and made a lot of bad decisons. What is the point to continue to fight this fight?
    Not sure, I was talking with Kevin finishing a conversation.

  2. #2237
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    One More Day is an awesome story!!! It erased the burden that was the marriage.

    Also, who is Mephisto's superior/boss in Hell? Does he answer to anyone?

  3. #2238
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaggyB View Post
    you are misunderstanding. That quote came from Kevin posting something slott said about Carlie in regards to mj. Its not really relevant to the conversation. Just means slott agrees that mj is popular. (Doesnt mean "He" would be spited by Mephisto actions... so it really doesnt matte and has nothing to do with the continuity conversation)




    Not sure, I was talking with Kevin finishing a conversation.
    Hmm, I thought I erased those parts that did not specifically deal with the lying thing.

  4. #2239
    Team Harry Regulus B.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenon View Post
    Just because Fanfiction writers believe that doesn't make it true.
    You're simply wrong.

    Think about it like this. When baby May is missing and Peter insists there's a chance of finding her, MJ begs him not to go. She tells him that she felt May die and Norman is just screwing with them.

    Now, would this have been out of character if she reversed her position? If she egged Peter on and told him to do whatever he had to in order to find Baby May? Do you consider it out of character whenever MJ waffled between accepting Peter as Spider-Man and being upset by it? Before the story was written, was there a guaranteed way that May would react to the news of finding out?

    Granted there are some behaviors that seem to skirt the bounds of being out of character. But even in those cases, a writer can chalk it up to rejecting Emerson' foolish consistency and claiming that, in this circumstance, the character did something different for a logical reason. Like going home to a parental figure to say goodbye when it looks like it's going to be the end.

    There's basically no writing choice that could be made with a character that couldn't be justified in one way or another. Granted, acceptance of that characterization may vary. But a writer can do whatever they please. And in many if not most cases, there's a logic that would keep either choice in character.
    And I hope when you think of me years down the line
    You can't find one good thing to say.
    And I hope that if I found the strength to walk out
    You'd stay the hell out of my way.

  5. #2240
    Administrator Expletive Deleted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One More Day View Post
    Also, who is Mephisto's superior/boss in Hell? Does he answer to anyone?
    He's self-employed. A small business owner, really.
    Expletive Deleted

  6. #2241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regulus B. View Post
    You're simply wrong.

    Think about it like this. When baby May is missing and Peter insists there's a chance of finding her, MJ begs him not to go. She tells him that she felt May die and Norman is just screwing with them.

    Now, would this have been out of character if she reversed her position? If she egged Peter on and told him to do whatever he had to in order to find Baby May? Do you consider it out of character whenever MJ waffled between accepting Peter as Spider-Man and being upset by it? Before the story was written, was there a guaranteed way that May would react to the news of finding out?

    Granted there are some behaviors that seem to skirt the bounds of being out of character. But even in those cases, a writer can chalk it up to rejecting Emerson' foolish consistency and claiming that, in this circumstance, the character did something different for a logical reason. Like going home to a parental figure to say goodbye when it looks like it's going to be the end.

    There's basically no writing choice that could be made with a character that couldn't be justified in one way or another. Granted, acceptance of that characterization may vary. But a writer can do whatever they please. And in many if not most cases, there's a logic that would keep either choice in character.
    So you are arguing there is no such thing as being OOC? Because I do think some of those things you mention are OOC. The whole don't be spiderman is one of them. Sometimes it was explained with good reasoning, sometimes it was just a cheap way to create drama.
    Last edited by charlesthehammer; 02-14-2012 at 06:50 PM.

  7. #2242

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    Quote Originally Posted by One More Day View Post
    One More Day is an awesome story!!! It erased the burden that was the marriage.

    Also, who is Mephisto's superior/boss in Hell? Does he answer to anyone?
    How was the marriage a Burden?

  8. #2243
    Ready to Smash Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaggyB View Post
    but again that has nothing to do with the specialness of the marriage in continuity.
    In-universe, they did put up with a lot of crap. (Mostly brought upon by Spidey. A shame that they never brought in enough crap from MJ's world into their lives.)


    some would disagree... but not me, we are at a stalemate.
    It was fun. I like friendly discussions. Which I think this one was.

    agreed.
    Comics are a very cyclical medium. Peter and MJ were never going to that next step, having a kid in continuity. They had their share of fights and break ups before too.

    Comics being what they are, they'll be a romantic couple again. And then there will be fights and break-ups and make-ups and a true split. And then the game will begin all over again. There just won't be a marriage for the next round.

    (Is that too cynical a viewpoint?)

    perhaps its just the personal thing.... to me I see them, like many fans, buying into what Mephisto told them. Regardless of whether its true... if mj and peter believed it, then its still the same.
    I suppose this is why we are at a stalemate in the discussion but it's fine if you read it that way.

    Loki was dead at the time. Thor hadnt res'd him yet
    Or maybe that's what he wanted you to think. He is the god of mischief after all. If you trust everything as it appears, he's already won.
    The monster saved them all. And in their fear, they betrayed him. As they always have. As they always will.

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  9. #2244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post







    Comics being what they are, they'll be a romantic couple again. And then there will be fights and break-ups and make-ups and a true split. And then the game will begin all over again. There just won't be a marriage for the next round.

    (Is that too cynical a viewpoint?)

    Not cynical enough, I predict eventually it will happen again (not anytime soon) and it will be a big event. Then eventually they will get tired of it and undo it again. So it does kind go with your cylindrical nature thing.

  10. #2245
    Team Harry Regulus B.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenon View Post
    It does if they get themselves killed in the process of saving the parent. Because then the Parent will spend the rest of their life suffering that their child died and it was "their fault".

    And even then the analogy doesn't work because in that situation the parent wants the child to leave because they don't want the risk, not because the parent wants to be there.. There's a legitimate case to be made that Aunt May was happy to be going on to be with her husband, and that instead of pulling her from the fire, he was pulling her out of line at Disney World right as she reached the gate.
    Peter didn't die.

    What amounts to a breakup is not akin to death. There was a 50% chance of it happening anyway (from a certain perspective that is).

    And the happiness could have been just as much as reassurance. If being with Ben was such a great idea, there are ways to get there without a sniper involved. But at this point, she sure seems happy with Jay, having gotten the chance to live.

    Quote Originally Posted by charlesthehammer View Post
    So you are arguing there is no such thing as being OOC? Because I do think some of those things you mention are OOC. The whole don't be spiderman is one of them. Sometimes it was explained with good reasoning, sometimes it was just a cheap way to create drama.
    I'm saying that a writer is highly unlikely to say "oh yeah, I wrote them OOC as hell just for my own amusement." Whatever the story, I promise you the writer has some justification.

    And sometimes, it's not that far from life. People aren't always unequivocally consistent.
    Last edited by Regulus B.; 02-14-2012 at 07:42 PM.
    And I hope when you think of me years down the line
    You can't find one good thing to say.
    And I hope that if I found the strength to walk out
    You'd stay the hell out of my way.

  11. #2246
    Super Amalgamated! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expletive Deleted View Post
    He's self-employed. A small business owner, really.
    Big business really, just based on lawyers and politicians alone.

    You know how many lawyers that guy has working for him? All of them.
    Highly Evolved Creature Totally Orientated on Revenge.

  12. #2247
    Ready to Smash Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    Big business really, just based on lawyers and politicians alone.

    You know how many lawyers that guy has working for him? All of them.
    But he qualifies as a small business owner on his tax returns. Because even Mephisto pays his taxes. You don't want those IRS guys mad at you.
    The monster saved them all. And in their fear, they betrayed him. As they always have. As they always will.

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  13. #2248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regulus B. View Post


    I'm saying that a writer is highly unlikely to say "oh yeah, I wrote them OOC as hell just for my own amusement." Whatever the story, I promise you the writer has some justification.

    And sometimes, it's not that far from life. People aren't always unequivocally consistent.
    Of course they have a reason, I just don't particularly care what their reasoning is. If they can come up with a good reason why they changed them and it makes sense it is fine, if it is obvious they are only doing it because the story needs it, an can not make a good reason (or in some cases not even bother giving a reason) it is bad.
    Last edited by charlesthehammer; 02-14-2012 at 07:15 PM.

  14. #2249
    Team Harry Regulus B.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlesthehammer View Post
    Of course they have a reason, I just don't particularly care what their reasoning is. If they can come up with a good reason why they changed them and it makes sense it is fine, if it is obvious they are only doing it because the story needs it, an can not make a good reason (or in some cases not even bother giving a reason) it is bad.
    Every story needs it. The reason Peter Parker is who he is, is because somebody thought it would make an interesting story. There is no other reason. Characters are not people. They don't make their own choices. They act at the service of the story. It's just a question of subtlety.
    And I hope when you think of me years down the line
    You can't find one good thing to say.
    And I hope that if I found the strength to walk out
    You'd stay the hell out of my way.

  15. #2250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regulus B. View Post
    Every story needs it. The reason Peter Parker is who he is, is because somebody thought it would make an interesting story. There is no other reason. Characters are not people. They don't make their own choices. They act at the service of the story. It's just a question of subtlety.
    No, every story does not need it. Characters (especially established characters) act in certain ways, if the story requires them to change and you can't really come up with why then use a character that fits the idea or don't use that story at all. If you want an example, look at Civil War.
    Last edited by charlesthehammer; 02-14-2012 at 07:46 PM.

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