Wonder Woman: How low can you go?

[carabas]

Bottom line, Carabas, is that killing him didnt work either.

That at least is a somewhat valid arguement, but then you run into it basically being useless for superheroes to even make an effort in stopping villains because no villain ever can be locked up or otherwise be dealt with.

And the only person who says that what was done to Clark was permanent was the guy who did it. But hey, if you put the Lasso on Lex he'll tell you that his plans are unstoppable as well.

The Martian Manhunter had also diagnosed Clark's condition as permanent.

[brettc1]

That at least is a somewhat valid arguement, but then you run into it basically being useless for superheroes to even make an effort in stopping villains because no villain ever can be locked up or otherwise be dealt with.

The Martian Manhunter had also diagnosed Clark's condition as permanent.

As permanent as dying?

But you are right in your first statement - the way comic books are written today locking villains up only reduces the bodycount. This is because these days villains reguarly engineer the deaths of thousands of innocent people at a time. See the most recent example, Throne of Atlantis. Sadly killing them does not seem like any better soloution.

Time was Superman and Wonder Woman would have stopped that wave before it killed thousands, but that is not considered edgy enough these days. People in the DC and Marvel Universes basically just walk around waiting to die in some holocaust. Statistically speaking in the comicbook worlds supervillains kill more people than the sum of handgun related crimes.

[bobbyraw]

Statistically speaking in the comicbook worlds supervillains kill more people than the sum of handgun related crimes.

This is probably pretty reasonable though. A bunch of psychos with the power to shoot fire or punch down skyscrapers are going to kill a hell of a lot more people than a nut with a handgun. even if there are a lot of nuts with handguns, I dont see them catching up to that level of killing-capability

[Mark_S]

The main problem for me is the NPC nature of the victims. It's all just numbers and rarely do we see the long term consequences to the victims.

[brettc1]

This is probably pretty reasonable though. A bunch of psychos with the power to shoot fire or punch down skyscrapers are going to kill a hell of a lot more people than a nut with a handgun. even if there are a lot of nuts with handguns, I dont see them catching up to that level of killing-capability

Yes, but the whole point of having superheroes is that they are supposed to stop the villains or at least keep them in check.

The current status quo of the DCU and MU is the villains turn up, kill hundreds or thousands of people, and then the heroes stop them. Where once the heroes used to truly the day now it is more like an eternal draw, where the good guys are incapable of preventing the villains victory without huge numbers of people dying first.

Some people say that is more realistic, but apart from any other considerations its not even that. In our world if a group of people dropped a bomb that killed thousands in a place like Bludhaven they woudl be hunted down ruthlessly and put down permanently, no matter how long it took. Orm will no doubt be prevented from destroying the surface world but will return sometime in the next decade to cause further carnage.

[LostinFandom]

You're not wrong. If Marston was alive today, he'd probably be writing one of those bondage webcomics that are so popular. And Wonder Woman would have more in common with Jim Balent's Tarot than modern Diana.

I've wondered a lot about how Marston's feminism was a product of his times, versus a more personal view on women. This just made me glad he was from another time.

[empty_handed]

Amazons Attack. Sewers WW (601 and on going). NuDC WW.

[Stanlos]

Without question, the whole time period with the relaunch and Amazons Attack. I never thought I would consider the fact she was largely ignored in crossovers of the past until AA! came along. The relaunch was terribly forced and the notion that Diana--of all the DCU heroes, Diana--had at any time lost touch with her humanity is just ri-GD-diculous really. That era had a WW that ran from her problems and her responsibilities as well as having her whole deal shat upon and sabotaged. Hard to get lower than that.

Ah, the LOLz.

But who could see it coming?

[Stanlos]

That's actually one of the things I like about the story.

Plus, it's open for interpretation, imo. Was Max trying to get her to kill him, or was he bluffing, in a sense, because he didn't think she'd actually go through with it? Or, did he just want to put her in a no-win situation?

Was the video tape broadcast a Max Lord action/plan? It's been an age since that story and I no longer have any books so I can't check. I thought that the broadcast was one of the more overt clues that Brother I had attained sentience. He "wanted" revenge and experienced severe "hatred" of Wonder Woman for killing Max. Max thought he was sitting pretty and, like most readers, did not see the 'third option' that Wonder Woman took until it was too late.

[brettc1]

The main problem for me is the NPC nature of the victims. It's all just numbers and rarely do we see the long term consequences to the victims.

This for sure.

People in the DCU United States must be traumatized by now. Marvel would be just as bad.

Good example of this is the brawl in JL#11. There is not even a pretense of taking care of the victims afterwards. Dozens of families would be sleeping in a hall somewhere that night. Kids would go back to the houses next day where they grow up and felt safe and find nothing but wreckage and ruin.

Now sure Bruce Wayne can pay for a new house and replace the physical objects that were lost - but the emotional damage is not fixed as easily, and this time it is all just because two super-heroes got mad and started hitting each other. The only response shown is that Green Lantern resigns. Well how the hell does that fix things for those people - its all just medai spin. The actual lives of the people affected arent shown by the writers as a priority after the incident.

[Gaelforce]

This for sure.

People in the DCU United States must be traumatized by now. Marvel would be just as bad.

Good example of this is the brawl in JL#11. There is not even a pretense of taking care of the victims afterwards. Dozens of families would be sleeping in a hall somewhere that night. Kids would go back to the houses next day where they grow up and felt safe and find nothing but wreckage and ruin.

Now sure Bruce Wayne can pay for a new house and replace the physical objects that were lost - but the emotional damage is not fixed as easily, and this time it is all just because two super-heroes got mad and started hitting each other. The only response shown is that Green Lantern resigns. Well how the hell does that fix things for those people - its all just medai spin. The actual lives of the people affected arent shown by the writers as a priority after the incident.

I do not, for the life of me, understand why anyone in their right mind would want to live in Marvel's New York City. The Avengers, the Fantastic Four, Daredevil, Spiderman and the X-Men in the suburbs. Move to the west coast if you want to live! :p

[Marvolo]

In my opinion, the Wonder Woman title and franchise has been going downhill ever since Gail Simone left.

[brettc1]

In my opinion, the Wonder Woman title and franchise has been going downhill ever since Gail Simone left.

I want to kiss you on the mouth.

[brettc1]

I do not, for the life of me, understand why anyone in their right mind would want to live in Marvel's New York City. The Avengers, the Fantastic Four, Daredevil, Spiderman and the X-Men in the suburbs. Move to the west coast if you want to live! :p

And its not even safe away from the big cities. In the last few five years I can think of at least two small towns that have been COMPLETELY wiped out. One destroyed in Avengers by the Red Skull and another where every living person was butchered by the Fenris Wolf in The Warriors Three mini. Not to mention the 200 people killed in Civil War #1.

And its not just the USA either. A couple of months ago Perth, the capital city of Western Australia, was destroyed by aliens. That's a city of 1.74 million people, about 8% of Australia's total population. Hope nobody was playing cricket at the WACA at the time. But honestly - almost two million people just obliterated in the blink of an eye! And The Avengers didnt even put the ones who did it in a cell! WTF?!

[The Man From Room X]

You never see any civilian casualties during the Avengers movie though