Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation

[Wellman]

It could have been better, could have been MUCH worst, I accept it since we all saw it coming. I just hope whatever ahppens to Namor now, moves him in direction where he can grow as his own character again.

But he really will owe T'Challa and Wakanda as a whole an apology. I doubt he will be able to pull a Quicksilver and blame it completely on the Phoenix Force when all is said and done.

[taozen]

I hated to see what Namor did and to see him fall. I just knew Namor was going to be the first to fall once the showed the scene where Emma manipulated him. I have alwaysed been a Namor fan and he has so much potential as a character. I thought he got taken down a little too easy even though it was just the Scarlet Witch who was the weapon. The next question is what will T'Challa and Wakanda do to him or will the P4 take him away? I guess now Illyanna will fall next, then Colossus and Cyke and Emma will duke it out for control. Anyway back to Namor. He did seem out of character and it will be interesting to see how much of it him or the Phoenix's influence.

[CHOX]

Recently I read something where Namor and Bucky worked together, but I can't remember what it was. I think Marvel missed a big opportunty by not having those two work together when Steve was dead. I bring this up now because...A) Namor is awesome, and B) I'm reading The Book of Skull.

Marvel, cut the crap and give us a Namor book!

[Rheged]

Recently I read something where Namor and Bucky worked together, but I can't remember what it was. I think Marvel missed a big opportunty by not having those two work together when Steve was dead. I bring this up now because...A) Namor is awesome, and B) I'm reading The Book of Skull.

Marvel, cut the crap and give us a Namor book!

Of course, I agree with that 100%

They did work together when Cap was dead. Some will call this heresy, but I think Brubaker writes a better Namor & Bucky dynamic then he does a Namor & Cap. They are endless entertaining when they are together, and have a subtle warmth and understanding between them.

Bru wrote them first in Winter Soldier Winter Kills. Then in the Man Without A Face arc. And also in an Invaders flashback in Cap & Bucky.

[EXCELSIOR 2.0]

Not to derail but where can I read stories involving the Invaders, but not actual WWII era stuff (it's just way too campy for me i have to admit) more of a modern retelling of sorts, sort of like that last panel.

[Moriarty]

Not to derail but where can I read stories involving the Invaders, but not actual WWII era stuff (it's just way too campy for me i have to admit) more of a modern retelling of sorts, sort of like that last panel.

read the Marvels Project mini. its very good. involves a lot of the WWII era heroes. features the Invaders in a few issues.

[Rheged]

Not to derail but where can I read stories involving the Invaders, but not actual WWII era stuff (it's just way too campy for me i have to admit) more of a modern retelling of sorts, sort of like that last panel.

You mean you don't want to read Golden Age books created in the 40s? Cause the Invaders are a retcon, they didn't actually exist in the 40s comics. They were created in the 70s -- not as campy as the Golden Age, but Bronze Age fun drawn by Frank Robbins, who I didn't particularly care for. INVADERS

After Roy Thomas' book, there's been a few revivals:

In the early 90s a 4 issue series THE INVADERS, by Roy Thomas and Dave Hoover -- this is where it was revealed that Dr. Nemesis was a Nazi during WWII as Dr. Death.

There was a two issue arc in John Byrne's NAMOR, #11 & #12.



MARVEL UNIVERSE featured an arc in the late 90s set during WWII that was collected in EVE OF DESTRUCTION. By Roger Stern with Steve Epting art.

NEW INVADERS was a new team with a mix of old and new Invaders and was far more political than anything before. It had polarizing art by CP Smith & written by Alan Jacobsen. Blazing Skull was hilarious, and the stand in for Cap was John Walker. It spun out of an Avengers arc by Chuck Austen with great art by Scott Kolins, that was also collected as ONCE AN INVADER.



AVENGERS / INVADERS written by Alex Ross & Jim Krueger with art by Steve Sadowski was ... well let's just say the plot wandered around. It had the WWII Invaders come to the present. The first couple of issues were good, though

THE TORCH written by Alex Ross & Mike Carey was set in the present and more about Toro, bringing the Torch back and was his story, though Namor had an issue or two with him and Toro.

INVADERS NOW! written by Alex Ross & Christos Gage with art by Caio Reiss had it's cool moments, but was pretty straight forward and was hampered by the stiff art. The first issue was kind of neat to see old camaraderie, like Torch and Namor; and Bucky and Toro. It was set in the present and had the Invaders, now all revived, but Union Jack, and brought together by magic to deal with the fallout of something they did in WWII.


CAP & BUCKY 622, & the Old Wounds arc (625, 626, 628) were Invaders centric. I think that last panel I posted came from 622.

CAPTAIN AMERICA FOREVER ALLIES by Roger Stern with art by Nick Dragotta has some Invaders, and is set in WWII and in the present, but it focuses more on Bucky and the Young Allies.

You might like THE PATRIOT. It's about the All Winners Squad, the original not Jenkins mini, but it was written a couple of years ago by Karl Kesel with art by Mitch Breitweiser. It's about Jeff Mace taking up Cap's costume after he and Bucky 'died' back in the 40s. Good stuff with some social commentary.



There were also a few of the MARVEL 70TH ANNIVERSARY issues that featured Namor, some of the Invaders or All Winners. I'm sure I've left something out, but these were the main ones.

EDIT: I did forget the MARVELS PROJECT, which is WWII era, but not solely focused on the Invaders.

And the excellent FEAR ITSELF BOOK OF THE SKULL, which CHOX mentioned.

As well as the time travel THUNDERBOLTS arc The Great Escape.

[Moriarty]

except for New Invaders and Avengers/Invaders those are all good reads. i thought Invaders Now! was really good.

[EXCELSIOR 2.0]

Wow Rheged, Moriarty thanks, I appreciate the feed back! I have A/I , and Invaders NOW! but I'll definitely look into The Torch (just for Ross, Carey alone, & I've always liked the original torches) and The Patriot, those seem perfect for what I wanted to get into.

[aNamored]

Nice to find this thread. Rheged, I agree with you regarding Namor's relations with Cap and Bucky. Ed said he really enjoyed writing Namor and it showed. I do have to read that Cap & Bucky series though, never got around to it.

Looking forward to New Avengers because of Namor and Doctor Strange.

[Rheged]

except for New Invaders and Avengers/Invaders those are all good reads. i thought Invaders Now! was really good.

I loved the first issue. The magic was kind of neat, but may have been a bit of overkill with Shuma Gorath. The moral dilemma and how the Invaders faced it both in the past and present was a good too. I just wish the art wasn't quite so stiff. And of course, it seems a shame that we don't get more adventures with them, after they teamed up again in the present.

I also enjoyed the Roger Stern Marvel Universe run reprinted in EVE OF DESTRUCTION. It was straight up WWII pulp adventure, with Strucker and Hydra.

I liked parts of New Invaders, but I know I'm in the minority.

Wow Rheged, Moriarty thanks, I appreciate the feed back! I have A/I , and Invaders NOW! but I'll definitely look into The Torch (just for Ross, Carey alone, & I've always liked the original torches) and The Patriot, those seem perfect for what I wanted to get into.

You're welcome. Always happy to chatter about Namor.

Those three, A / I, Torch, and Invaders Now are really a trilogy plotted by Alex Ross. They would have been so much better if he had drawn them, instead of just coming up with the story and doing covers. There's some interesting ideas in them, but not always executed well.

I really enjoyed the Patriot. If you like it, there's a Karl Kesel 70th Anniversary issue on the All Winners and Jeff Mace. It's more humorous and boy does Namor give Mace grief.

[Rheged]

Nice to find this thread. Rheged, I agree with you regarding Namor's relations with Cap and Bucky. Ed said he really enjoyed writing Namor and it showed. I do have to read that Cap & Bucky series though, never got around to it.

Looking forward to New Avengers because of Namor and Doctor Strange.

It's interesting and kind of annoying to see how various writers approach Namor and Cap's relationship -- everything from distant allies to brothers and best pals. I only know Bucky and Namor, however, from Bru, having missed most of Roy Thomas' original Invaders. But I love what Bru set up for them, which you can see in those scans. While more harshly critical, I think Namor accepted Bucky as an adult / competent before Cap, and tended to treat him as such. Which is why Bucky appreciates Namor's grudgingly won respect.

And in those scans, you see how much they understand and relate to each other, war buddies, both men who are out of time, in part because their memories were stolen. Good stuff. I wish Bru had done more with it.

[Moriarty]

I loved the first issue. The magic was kind of neat, but may have been a bit of overkill with Shuma Gorath. The moral dilemma and how the Invaders faced it both in the past and present was a good too. I just wish the art wasn't quite so stiff. And of course, it seems a shame that we don't get more adventures with them, after they teamed up again in the present.

I also enjoyed the Roger Stern Marvel Universe run reprinted in EVE OF DESTRUCTION. It was straight up WWII pulp adventure, with Strucker and Hydra.

I liked parts of New Invaders, but I know I'm in the minority.

i guess after my disappointment with Avengers/Invaders i was thrilled to see a better story in Invaders Now! though, i did like Torch beating Sentry in Avengers/Invaders, that was great.

parts of New Invaders was good. i did like Blazing Skull. hated that he got took out like a punk in one of the Marvel Zombies minis.

i always thought it was a shame Marvel Universe was canceled after just a few issues. that Invaders story was great. the Monster Hunters story after that was fun too.

[aNamored]

It's interesting and kind of annoying to see how various writers approach Namor and Cap's relationship -- everything from distant allies to brothers and best pals. I only know Bucky and Namor, however, from Bru, having missed most of Roy Thomas' original Invaders. But I love what Bru set up for them, which you can see in those scans. While more harshly critical, I think Namor accepted Bucky as an adult / competent before Cap, and tended to treat him as such. Which is why Bucky appreciates Namor's grudgingly won respect.

And in those scans, you see how much they understand and relate to each other, war buddies, both men who are out of time, in part because their memories were stolen. Good stuff. I wish Bru had done more with it.

I see everything you mentioned in those scans and a great deal of respect between Bucky and Namor. I've read more of their dealings with each other than Namor and Cap and I think you hit the nail right on the head (and beautifully I might add.)

One thing I've been meaning to ask, I haven't read the material where Namor memories were stolen. I always pick up when he's an amnesiac on the streets of NYC, is there a story or series which explains how he got there? I like to read that material.

[AcesX1X]

But he really will owe T'Challa and Wakanda as a whole an apology. I doubt he will be able to pull a Quicksilver and blame it completely on the Phoenix Force when all is said and done.

quicksilver lied to the avengers to get himself out of trouble. at least namor has an excuse.