Health Care Reform Debate-Megathread

[Vibranium]

So while you're complaining that it'd be unfair for you to pay for other people's health care, other people are paying for your health care?

I don't agree with that either....let's take a big step back and look at history...the concept of "health insurance" has really only been around for 50-60 years....we, as a civilization, were getting by before "insurance"....I honestly feel the whole system is broken and only benefits the PTB in the insurance and medical supply indsutries...its like a bunch of old dudes sat in a room and figured "hey, we need a way to make some money off of people being sick and we'll trick them into thinking they need this...and them make them pay anyway"

[Puma]

I don't agree with that either....let's take a big step back and look at history...the concept of "health insurance" has really only been around for 50-60 years....we, as a civilization, were getting by before "insurance"....I honestly feel the whole system is broken and only benefits the PTB in the insurance and medical supply indsutries...its like a bunch of old dudes sat in a room and figured "hey, we need a way to make some money off of people being sick and we'll trick them into thinking they need this...and them make them pay anyway"

average lifespan 100 years ago in the US (prior to standardized medical practices and, definitely, before medical insurance) 1912

Men 51.5 Women 55.9/ 2012 Men 78.2 Women 75.6

People couldn't afford medical care so they died. Yeah, that's getting by.

[Matt Algren]

It's called living in a community.

When you're sick, the healthy fella has your back.

It's not that hard

It's disappointing (if unsurprising) that we keep having to have this conversation. It's a very basic principle.

average lifespan 100 years ago in the US (prior to standardized medical practices and, definitely, before medical insurance) 1912

Men 51.5 Women 55.9/ 2012 Men 78.2 Women 75.6

People couldn't afford medical care so they died. Yeah, that's getting by.

Not to mention the fact that medical care back then was pretty much "yep, we'll have to amputate." Quadruple bypass surgeries, X-Rays, vaccines, antibiotics, and expensive life-saving medications weren't part of the equation.

(Neither were huge corporations built on the concept of profiting on people's poor health, but I digress...)

[Vibranium]

Not to mention the fact that medical care back then was pretty much "yep, we'll have to amputate." Quadruple bypass surgeries, X-Rays, vaccines, antibiotics, and expensive life-saving medications weren't part of the equation.

(Neither were huge corporations built on the concept of profiting on people's poor health, but I digress...)

but do we have to tolerate one (evil profiteering insurance companies) to have the other (medical advancements)?

I also think that a big problem we (society, Americans in particular) have is promoting a healthy culture....put down the Mickey Ds and the Carls Jr...eat a carrot ya fattie

[Vibranium]

It's disappointing (if unsurprising) that we keep having to have this conversation. It's a very basic principle.

because no one has given a straight answer

if someone is barely getting by (like eating ramen noodles every night and having to call out of work because they can't put gas in their car), how are they expected to have MORE money come out of their paycheck for insurance because the government mandates it?

[Matt Algren]

but do we have to tolerate one (evil profiteering insurance companies) to have the other (medical advancements)?

Of course not. That's why many progressives would prefer a Medicare-for-all system in place of Obamacare.

[mikekerrIII]

because no one has given a straight answer

if someone is barely getting by (like eating ramen noodles every night and having to call out of work because they can't put gas in their car), how are they expected to have MORE money come out of their paycheck for insurance because the government mandates it?

What you miss is that t if they are that poor someone else is picking up the tab,

[Matt Algren]

because no one has given a straight answer

if someone is barely getting by (like eating ramen noodles every night and having to call out of work because they can't put gas in their car), how are they expected to have MORE money come out of their paycheck for insurance because the government mandates it?

Pay attention. Those people's insurance is heavily subsidized.

[Puma]

I also think that a big problem we (society, Americans in particular) have is promoting a healthy culture....put down the Mickey Ds and the Carls Jr...eat a carrot ya fattie

Too simplistic.

The US, and increasingly other developed countries, are facing an obesity problem. Yes part of this is due to diet, but it is also due to a sedentary lifestyle- we work at sit down type jobs or those that require little manual labor and then go home and sit on the couch watch tv or playing video games, physical education has been reduced in schools, the layout of cities and suburbs does not encourage walking, many inner urban residential areas have limited access to fresh produce and fruits, 'prepared' packaged meals are cheaper than healthier meals that require someone to prepare and cook, and, finally, the ease of purchasing an unhealthy meal at a fast food place and super-sizing it because it is perceived as getting "more for your money".

It is much more than "drop the french fry and pick up a carrot" and needs to be addressed as a whole and not just piecemeal.

[Vibranium]

What you miss is that t if they are that poor someone else is picking up the tab,

other people shouldn't HAVE TO is my point..I feel like Im being misunderstood here

I view it as product...I buy something, I pay for it...if Im in line at the grocery store and im buying milk, I pay for it...if they guy behind me in line doesn't have enough money for milk, that is his problem...I should not be stopped by store employees and be told "hey. you have to help pay for that guys milk"

[Vibranium]

Too simplistic.

The US, and increasingly other developed countries, are facing an obesity problem. Yes part of this is due to diet, but it is also due to a sedentary lifestyle- we work at sit down type jobs or those that require little manual labor and then go home and sit on the couch watch tv or playing video games, physical education has been reduced in schools, the layout of cities and suburbs does not encourage walking, many inner urban residential areas have limited access to fresh produce and fruits, 'prepared' packaged meals are cheaper than healthier meals that require someone to prepare and cook, and, finally, the ease of purchasing an unhealthy meal at a fast food place and super-sizing it because it is perceived as getting "more for your money".

It is much more than "drop the french fry and pick up a carrot" and needs to be addressed as a whole and not just piecemeal.

I couldn't agree more....I have a number of friends who are attempting to grow their own gardens, buy local produce, and just generally live better....I mean, they flood the hood with cheap processed meals to keep the people eating unhealthy

[Puma]

other people shouldn't HAVE TO is my point..I feel like Im being misunderstood here

I view it as product...I buy something, I pay for it...if Im in line at the grocery store and im buying milk, I pay for it...if they guy behind me in line doesn't have enough money for milk, that is his problem...I should not be stopped by store employees and be told "hey. you have to help pay for that guys milk"

So...if you choose not to have medical insurance and are in an accident, or develop a severe condition (cancer, stage 1), and do not have enough money available to pay for treatments I can safely toss you to the side of the road?

and now let's imagine it is your child;it's okay to let them die when treatment exists?

[Puma]

I couldn't agree more....I have a number of friends who are attempting to grow their own gardens, buy local produce, and just generally live better....I mean, they flood the hood with cheap processed meals to keep the people eating unhealthy

Who is this "they"?

not trying to be a jerk here but I am getting a lot of 'victim' from your posts.

[Vibranium]

So...if you choose not to have medical insurance and are in an accident, or develop a severe condition (cancer, stage 1), and do not have enough money available to pay for treatments I can safely toss you to the side of the road?

you should have the choice to....if you WANT to bear the burden of someone elses medical care, fine...but there should be an option

and now let's imagine it is your child;it's okay to let them die when treatment exists?

this is a trap question mean to elicit an emotional response...and I don't have a kid, so I can't fairly or adequately answer this

[Charles RB]

But payoffs that exceed the cost? Probably not. Taxpayer-funded stadiums usually result in a net loss to the city.

Ow. When you brought up stadiums, I was thinking "the sports matches bring in money and that will benefit the state/city/whatever government" - if it doesn't, I don't know why they bother.

I wouldn't expect someone else to come out of their pocket for my welfare

They do. It's called your car insurance.

Also Veteran's Affairs.

And the insurance on your home.