Health Care Reform Debate-Megathread

[Mac Danny]

Your source for this?

A Harvard Medical School Study.

[Mac Danny]

Best to hold off on those diamond-studded dentures, then. Or at least spread the expense across two years.

at $ 200 a tooth for fillings that could get used up pretty quick. If I ever needed a bridge or a root Canal that would put a dent in it pretty fast.

I am pretty sure I don't have the similar clause in my health insurance but I have heard that they exist.

Fun fact, one 4 day stay in the hospital plus surgery was over 108K by itself. The surgery part only cost 30K according to my bill from the insurance co.

[The Chief5425]

A Harvard Medical School Study.

There's a difference between correlation and causation, or, a guy who gets hit by a Mac truck is probably dead whether he had health insurance or not. The National Center for Policy Analysis points out flaws within that very article.

[Mac Danny]

There's a difference between correlation and causation, or, a guy who gets hit by a Mac truck is probably dead whether he had health insurance or not. The National Center for Policy Analysis points out flaws within that very article.

So what is an acceptable number of Americans that should die for lack of insurance? My answer is 0, yours?

[Ray R.]

So what is an acceptable number of Americans that should die for lack of insurance? My answer is 0, yours?

Whatever the free market dictates, communist.

[Alexander the immortal]

So what is an acceptable number of Americans that should die for lack of insurance? My answer is 0, yours?

more than 0 about long term expensive treatments - not emergency treatments , i believe that all people should be treated by the best means available in the hospital.

[Mac Danny]

Whatever the free market dictates, communist.

Hey, were making omelets here! You know a way to do it without breaking a few eggs?

[Ray R.]

Hey, were making omelets here! You know a way to do it without breaking a few eggs?

If you're eating omelets, then you obviously have high cholesterol, and I'm not paying valuable tax dollars to take care of your uninsured heart attacks.

Pull yourself up by your bootstraps, son.

[o1pickleboy]

If you are against health care reform or your taxes going to fund some other deadbeats problems then please endorse the following, other poor uses of your tax dollars.

Disband the police force, Why should you pay to protect your neighbors stuff? If you want protection buy a gun and protect yourself.

End public schools. Education isn't for everyone, why should the government mandate that my kid learn? it's up to me to decide what my kid learns or not!

Disband the Fire Department. If my idiot neighbor is going to set his house on fire, why should I pay to put it out? he's the idiot!

Disband the Military. If I want to protect my country it is my right to do so, but don't spend my hard earned dollars on a military. Especially if they are going to do things like "aid foreign countries"

End the court system. Who has a better way to decide right and wrong than the average American! My taxes shouldn't pay for your legal dispute.

While we are reforming health care, lets close the monopoly exception for health insurance companies. Lets get a little competition in this "free Market"

IN regards to rationing, we have it now? How many times have you been turned down for a procedure or test because your insurance wouldn't cover it? How many people have a cap on what their insurance will cover? I know I do and it sucks.

Every year I get 100,000 in dental insurance coverage. If i exceed that it's out of my pocket. I am lucky I don't have a similar cap on health insurance.

Resistance to health care reform is out of fear. Fear of the devil you don't know.

Bottom Line, 45,000 people die every year from not having enough money to pay for their medical bills. If you are not for Health care reform then you are for killing 45,000 Americans every year.

I am not saying this to agrue against National Health Care here in the states, but if it was between death or getting National Health Care I would move somewhere that had it.

I wonder how many people immigrate to out of the U.S for health care reasons?

[Mac Danny]

If you're eating omelets, then you obviously have high cholesterol, and I'm not paying valuable tax dollars to take care of your uninsured heart attacks.

Pull yourself up by your bootstraps, son.

What about Ensign's Fat people should pay higher premiums thing. If we use the CDC guidelines a lot of people fall out of their acceptable height weight range.

[Titan76]

Public Option backers not going down without a fight.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories...360_Page2.html

The forces in favor of a public health insurance option roared back Thursday on Capitol Hill after weeks when their cause looked bleak.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) looked closer than ever to including a robust U.S. government-run insurance program in the House bill — saying recent attempts by the health insurance industry to undercut reform prove insurers can’t be trusted.

And in the Senate, a weekly policy lunch turned into a heated debate when liberals went after the Senate Finance Committee bill and made clear they won’t roll over for legislation that doesn’t include a public option.

Reflecting deep divides within the caucus, the Senate luncheon turned tense, with voices elevated and senators venting. “In today’s lunch, it even involved a little performance theater,” Sen. Evan Bayh (D-Ind.) said, describing it as an “emotional catharsis.”

In a week when the Senate Finance Committee passed a bill without a public option — raising questions about whether that would prove the public option’s last gasp — progressives in both houses showed they won’t go down without a fight.

And Thursday proved that if President Barack Obama hoped the public option question would fade of its own accord, he probably won’t get that lucky — but will be forced to referee a compromise between liberals and moderates.

But in the House, moderates stand to suffer the most if Pelosi goes ahead with plans to include the most ambitious public option — forcing them into a tough vote that will surely be used by Republican opponents in 2010.

In the House, Pelosi told her rank and file Thursday that the time has come to “freeze the design,” meaning she wants unveil a completed House bill as early as next week.

Pelosi favors a public-option plan supported by liberals that reimburses doctors at rates that are 5 percent higher than Medicare — one of the strongest versions of the public option on the table.

Pelosi used the reports put out this week by the insurance lobby — which said reform would add thousands to family insurance premiums — to show the public needs some defense against the industry.

“Anyone who had any doubts about the need for such an option need only look at the behavior of the health insurance industry this week,” Pelosi said. “If you are going to mandate that people must buy insurance, why would you throw them into the lion’s den of the insurance industry without some leverage with a public option?”

Liberals and even some leadership aides suggest the speaker has about 200 votes for a public option tethered to Medicare — not the 218 she needs but well within striking distance. The question, though, is whether those members support the overarching bill.

Pelosi is juggling other proposals to find a middle ground in that standoff. The latest would be to reimburse hospitals at a rate 5 percent higher than Medicare. But moderates quickly rejected it, saying it still wouldn’t do enough to help rural hospitals.

“It’s not nearly enough,” South Dakota Rep. Stephanie Herseth Sandlin said as she left a Thursday morning meeting with the speaker and other party leaders.

So now it comes down to cost.

The Congressional Budget Office is expected to deliver cost estimates to the House in the next few days that will show a public option tied to Medicare saves more money than one in which doctors can negotiate reimbursement rates directly with the government.

Armed with those numbers, liberals, and perhaps even the speaker, will put pressure on their fiscally conservative colleagues to embrace the plan that saves the most money, pitting parochial concerns against small-government principles.

For months, Blue Dogs have been telling anyone who would listen that cost concerns about the overarching bill trump the debate over a public option, despite all the outside attention paid to that fight.

“This is becoming a false choice,” said Utah Rep. Jim Matheson, an influential Democrat in the conservative Blue Dog Coalition. “I find it interesting how the discussion seems to be dominated by the public option, but I think there are other top-line issues that will be more important for how some members vote.”

In the Senate lunch, about a half-dozen Democrats — some of whom sit on the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee, which passed a bill with a public option — made a plea to the leadership. One after the other, senators such as Democrats Sherrod Brown of Ohio and Chris Dodd of Connecticut and independent Bernie Sanders of Vermont argued in favor of a strong government insurance plan in the final legislation.

Sanders made one of the more emphatic pitches, according to people present at the meeting. He has been highly critical of the Finance Committee bill, saying it is “extremely weak.”

Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus (D-Mont.) stood to defend his bill, saying, “We are trying to do the best we can; we are trying to get a product that works,” Bayh said.

Multiple senators described the meeting as “spirited” — Senate-speak for a gathering in which members did not hold back. It underscores the divide that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) and Obama have yet to bridge.

“A lot of different ideas [were] being expressed very candidly, some maybe a little louder than others,” said Sen. Ben Nelson (D-Neb.). But he added, “It was tamer than a lot of town hall meetings.”

[Titan76]

What about Ensign's Fat people should pay higher premiums thing. If we use the CDC guidelines a lot of people fall out of their acceptable height weight range.

Especially in the south, where the public option is most opposed by.

[Titan76]

On a side note, the VA got its reform bill passed.

http://www.reuters.com/article/press...09+PRN20091015

WASHINGTON, Oct. 15 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The American Federation of
Government Employees, today, lauded the efforts of Congress in passing
historic legislation to reform the way it funds health care provided by the
Department of Veterans Affairs. For more than 20 years, AFGE has advocated for
substantial reform in the VA funding process. AFGE applauds these members of
Congress for their commitment to the VA, its patients, and its employees.


Earlier this year, AFGE stood with veterans' service organizations and House
and Senate VA Committee members in staunch support as Rep. Filner and Sen.
Akaka introduced the legislation. "We applaud the members of Congress for
their commitment to veterans' care," said J. David Cox, AFGE national
secretary treasurer and retired VA nurse. "It is the right thing to do for VA
employees and for our nation's veterans."


The advanced appropriations bill, which was supported by the president when he
was a Senator, will end the unpredictability and inadequacy of the VA's
discretionary funding process, by allowing Congress to provide health care
dollars to the VA in advance. The president is expected to sign the
legislation.


AFGE and its National VA Council have been longtime advocates for mandatory
funding of the VA, an approach widely supported by the veterans' community.
AFGE with the nine veterans' groups comprising the Partnership for Veterans
Health Care Budget Reform endorsed advanced appropriations as an alternative
funding approach that is achievable in the short term. As detailed in the
bill, advanced appropriations would authorize Congress to approve funding for
VA health care a year in advance of the next fiscal year. The Partnership has
also advocated that the Government Accountability Office study and provide a
report to Congress annually for the next three years on the VA's budget
forecasting model and estimates.

[Loren]

Every year I get 100,000 in dental insurance coverage.

at $ 200 a tooth for fillings that could get used up pretty quick.

You must have a mouth like a Langolier.

[Slam_Bradley]

What about Ensign's Fat people should pay higher premiums thing. If we use the CDC guidelines a lot of people fall out of their acceptable height weight range.

I've never fell within it. Not even when I was rail thin in high school. Nor does my middle son. He's 5' 11" and weighs 194 pounds. After a summer of swimming and fall of football he doesn't have an ounce of fat on him, but he's "overweight" by almost every criteria you can find and obese by many. I suppose we could all stop eating.