Wonder Woman: Animated

[ChrisDonaghy]

Not only that, they actually ADDED a scene that's not in the comic in which Diana is having a swordfight on the beach with another Amazon who talks of wanting to overthrow the Queen. So now, Diana and the Amazons just look completely violent, hard, and ruthless, showing none of the trademark compassion and goodness.

I think you totally misread that scene -- Mala (the Golden Age character, who tied Diana in the contest, leading to the bullets v. bracelets face-off) is remarking that the Amazons want their leaders closer to home, not with divided loyalties -- which ticks Diana off because it's the same garbage she's been hearing from Americans ever since the Cold War began. Mala's talking about Diana, not Hippolyta, as they SPAR, not fight- -until the Centre appears and they immediately set aside their differences, facing the intruder together.

Said intruder wipes the floor with the Amazons, apparently, leading to that truly shocking scene of the invisible plane crashing through the clouds in Florida -- and then you realize you can see the outline of the cockpit due to Diana's blood all over the place. It's a moment so shocking it even gets Superman out of his self-absorption long enough to knock heads together,

I don't equate Diana telling Kal-El to get his head out his navel with being bitchy -- she's speaking to him as an equal, one of the few people on the planet who can do that -- and he respects her for it, as he admits to Lois later on. I wonder how many people realize that the women she freed in Indochina to get their revenge were fighting the Viet Cong? Superman sure didn't -- and I doubt she would have gotten much bad press for freeing prisoners of the Communists in those days.

But that critique of New Frontier is old hat -- EVERYONE has scenes or passages they wish were seen -- but they determined to make a 75 minute DTV -- looking back, I'm sure they could have gone to 100 minutes without any complaint at all -- but who knew it would be so popular?

[lariatofhestia]

JLU WW was a really poor representation of Diana to me. She is someone who stole the armor and forgot she had a role as an emissary.

I have one image of Diana over and over again and it is drawing her fists back and clutching everyone by the collar and ready to punch them out.

I got sick and tired of it. She was extremely bitchy too and her relationship with Shyera was nothing as how Diana should be with a fellow sister. But then hey why should she care, when she looked down on people. Fact apart from all the fighting and wearing the iconic armor,she is darn well, not very likable if you take her persona into isolation.

They did not bother even showing her evolve. That was given to Hawkgirl.Much of JLU was WW on heat for Batman.:rolleyes: and the fights.

[WorstThingUS]

JLU WW was a really poor representation of Diana to me. She is someone who stole the armor and forgot she had a role as an emissary.

But she wasn't an emissary. She really didn't assume that role until the last season when we see her at the conference on global warming.

I have one image of Diana over and over again and it is drawing her fists back and clutching everyone by the collar and ready to punch them out.

That could be said about every single member, especially Superman who was done as a bit more hot-tempered than his comics counterpart. It was an action series after all.

I got sick and tired of it. She was extremely bitchy too and her relationship with Shyera was nothing as how Diana should be with a fellow sister.

You mean the sister who betrayed her and all of the Justice League and led to the earth being conquered by alien invaders because she'd given away all their secrets? What's that in the face of sisterhood?

They did not bother even showing her evolve. That was given to Hawkgirl.Much of JLU was WW on heat for Batman.:rolleyes: and the fights.

Superman didn't evolve. Batman didn't evolve. Flash didn't evolve. That's hardly a valid complaint. It wasn't "The Wonder Woman" show after all. And your definition of "heat" is clearly different from mine, seeing how it was a) mutual and b) didn't go too much further than her wanting to go dancing in the "Maid of Honor" episode and the "This Little Piggy" episode.

[Gail Simone]

Lauren Montgomery had some very cool style sheets on her blog the other day, wonder if they can be posted here.

[Duy]

Superman didn't evolve. Batman didn't evolve. Flash didn't evolve. That's hardly a valid complaint. It wasn't "The Wonder Woman" show after all.

And even then, I think Diana evolved. She went from being really unsure and uncomfortable and uneasy with her mom, to absolutely and totally cutting loose and then having to manage that temper.

[BnL]

I think you totally misread that scene -- Mala (the Golden Age character, who tied Diana in the contest, leading to the bullets v. bracelets face-off) is remarking that the Amazons want their leaders closer to home, not with divided loyalties -- which ticks Diana off because it's the same garbage she's been hearing from Americans ever since the Cold War began. Mala's talking about Diana, not Hippolyta, as they SPAR, not fight- -until the Centre appears and they immediately set aside their differences, facing the intruder together.

Said intruder wipes the floor with the Amazons, apparently, leading to that truly shocking scene of the invisible plane crashing through the clouds in Florida -- and then you realize you can see the outline of the cockpit due to Diana's blood all over the place. It's a moment so shocking it even gets Superman out of his self-absorption long enough to knock heads together,

I don't equate Diana telling Kal-El to get his head out his navel with being bitchy -- she's speaking to him as an equal, one of the few people on the planet who can do that -- and he respects her for it, as he admits to Lois later on. I wonder how many people realize that the women she freed in Indochina to get their revenge were fighting the Viet Cong? Superman sure didn't -- and I doubt she would have gotten much bad press for freeing prisoners of the Communists in those days.

But that critique of New Frontier is old hat -- EVERYONE has scenes or passages they wish were seen -- but they determined to make a 75 minute DTV -- looking back, I'm sure they could have gone to 100 minutes without any complaint at all -- but who knew it would be so popular?

Hmm, detecting a hostile tone here...

Anyway, as I said earlier, it's not the dialogue I objected to, since most of it was the same as in the comic. It's that the dialogue came across much differently due to Lawless's performance, which tended to be more on the angry side. As for my "old hat critique," I understand that lots of stuff had to be edited out due to time constraints. That's why I specifically mentioned that they actually added a scene with Wonder Woman on the beach, which wasn't in the comic. And in that scene, Diana comes across as too aggressive, IMO. They could have just as easily kept the scene with Diana talking to the President and not used the scene on the beach without adding to the length of the movie, and it would have been a more balanced portrayal of Wonder Woman.

[ChrisDonaghy]

Hmm, detecting a hostile tone here...

Anyway, as I said earlier, it's not the dialogue I objected to, since most of it was the same as in the comic. It's that the dialogue came across much differently due to Lawless's performance, which tended to be more on the angry side. As for my "old hat critique," I understand that lots of stuff had to be edited out due to time constraints. That's why I specifically mentioned that they actually added a scene with Wonder Woman on the beach, which wasn't in the comic. And in that scene, Diana comes across as too aggressive, IMO. They could have just as easily kept the scene with Diana talking to the President and not used the scene on the beach without adding to the length of the movie, and it would have been a more balanced portrayal of Wonder Woman.

None intended, at all. I simply pointed out that the added scene was totally different from you description of it as "fighting an Amazon who's talking of overthrowing the Queen." I would have liked to see the scene you mentioned -- although it's hinted at when Diana and Superman both reference her disillusionment with America since the war. I'm guessing they added the workout with Mala to get as many ideas as possible into the compressed film. That's always a risky move at best.

We do agree that the film needed more time and room -- but that is a common caveat regarding the movie. Hope that sounds better than what I originally wrote.

Since the only times we see Diana in the movie are in Indochina, this sequence, and in the climactic battle (where the guys on the beach needed her to rally them at that point), there wasn't time to show much outside the warrior. Casting Lucy Lawless made it impossible for people to come to the film without that preconceived notion, as well. Unless you were Green Lantern, Flash or maybe Batman (whose role was expanded from the original GN), character depth was not going to happen in the time constraints they had.

Hope that doesn't come across as still hostile -- but Diana standing up for what she thinks is right isn't bitchy. She smacks around Viet Minh (not Cong yet) who are keeping women in tiger cages and tells Kal to back off when he tut-tuts about it. The only other aggression she shows is fighting against the same monsters we are led to believe trashed Paradise Island. You'd have a hard time convincing me that neither of those instances weren't justified.

[lariatofhestia]

But she wasn't an emissary. She really didn't assume that role until the last season when we see her at the conference on global warming.

No till this day I have no clear idea what Diana was supposed to be. Her stealing the armor is something Diana would NEVER do. As a member of the Trinity she was used as a tool in this series. She showed very little of the wisdom and compassion she is known for. She would make a lousy Ambassador btw with her arrogance.



That could be said about every single member, especially Superman who was done as a bit more hot-tempered than his comics counterpart. It was an action series after all.

Hot tempered? Superman? Are you kidding me? Diana pulls her fists back at everyone,even Gods. Diana is what I would equate to trigger happy and thinks that is the answer to everything. She asks a question and if you don't answer..bam she's ready to punch. I never saw Batman or Superman using that tact. Diana just by being who she is shouldn't have to resort to bullying. She had a lasso too if I remember well but seems Timm forgot about that.:rolleyes:



You mean the sister who betrayed her and all of the Justice League and led to the earth being conquered by alien invaders because she'd given away all their secrets? What's that in the face of sisterhood?

WW is historically more empathetic. She of all people would extent a hand to Shyera in trying to understand. Even in the face of what she did cause Shyera was remorseful . Diana holding a grudge and being bitchy as in the commissary scene with her,flash and Shyera is not Diana at all. Diana is not the woman you would go to is she? Shyera is the one the other members seemed to feel able to be easier around. And no wonder. If I had to work with a woman like this I would not be exactly be tripping over myself to have her mentor me.



Superman didn't evolve. Batman didn't evolve. Flash didn't evolve. That's hardly a valid complaint. It wasn't "The Wonder Woman" show after all. And your definition of "heat" is clearly different from mine, seeing how it was a) mutual and b) didn't go too much further than her wanting to go dancing in the "Maid of Honor" episode and the "This Little Piggy" episode.

What do you mean they did not evolve? This show was a love letter to Batman. Did you see Epilogue? Did you see how Batman uses his kindness and empathy to deal with Ace? Did you see how Superman deal with Draaga and Mongul? They are not novices in the world with a temper. And Diana was chasing Batman and giving him looks in very panel they share and he is so kind to keep her at bay. Even when she can't get a date she cracks a Gargoyle's head. Sheesh.

The real kick in the teeth to me is when the producer said he never knew what to do with WW nor got her. So pardon me if I don't like this incarnation.

[lariatofhestia]

[I]

Lucy Lawless played her way too harsh, IMO. Most of the dialogue is exactly the same as in the comic, but due to Lawless's aggressive delivery, she comes across much differently in the movie. Plus, in the movie, they omitted a nice, but short scene from the comic in which Diana tries to talk to the President about how she wants to spread a message of love and peace, and is treated dismissively, because her message doesn't suit his purposes. It shows the soft, compassionate side of Wonder Woman that is absolutely essential, but they left it out. Not only that, they actually ADDED a scene that's not in the comic in which Diana is having a swordfight on the beach with another Amazon who talks of wanting to overthrow the Queen. So now, Diana and the Amazons just look completely violent, hard, and ruthless, showing none of the trademark compassion and goodness.

[/I]



You are right. To me this is what animated WW lacks. Balance. We see a lot of fighting and aggression. They always fail to show the gentler side. The more empathetic side. The side that shows people why we would believe in this warrior of peace.

Even the part where she told Supes about her being ousted and about sovereignty and leadership which she should understand was written in a given to Lois.

I think Dawin Cooke had problems with the women or lack thereof in this as the DCUA team had only wanted Carol Ferris alone and he had insisted they rewrite.

This is what Cooke had to say recently at Fan Expo

On the subject of “Justice League: The New Frontier,” based on Cooke’s epic superhero book, “DC: The New Frontier,” Cooke said there were frustrations with translating his seminal work to animation. Specifically, Cooke had issues with the “New Frontier” script and its complete lack of female characters, save for Carol Ferris, who “seemed to exist just so Hal could slap her on the butt.” Cooke insisted on rewriting it and Warner Bros. acquiesced.

Haines asked Cooke to expand upon the appearance of Wonder Woman in "New Frontier." "Wonder Woman is supposed to have the body of a fourteen-year-old and the boobs of a . . . their whole approach to beauty is limited," Cooke explained. "Basically women are a plot device. That's pretty sad to me."

When asked if he would pursue more work in animation, Cooke said it's a matter of avoiding the "idiots" who are in positions around the animation business. "I would love to do more animation, but it would depend on everything being just so." Cooke also revealed that a Spirit animated film “almost happened.”

When asked what needs to happen for Marvel and DC to “smarten up” about developing strong female characters, Cooke said, "Men are idiots. You put five of us in a room and within two minutes the boobie jokes have started."



I find that interesting and I hope creators have more spine to stand up to the people who might take a really good piece of work and just do not do it justice.

[ryerye17]

You are aware that:

1) Have you seen the opening sequence of JLU? The last panel with all the heroes flying had the Trinity in the forefront.

2) What's wrong with punching people? Anyway, the lasso didn't have the "truth" ability until Hippolyta activated it, remember?

3) This "empathic" Diana voted out Batman in Rock of Ages.

4) Diana as a rookie echoes Perez's reboot of her. And a WW-Batman relationship has always been hinted on. In fact, it's probably this incarnation that did it best.

[ExperienceTheWonder]

I love all the animated interpretations of WW for different reasons, but I LOVE the character design for the 2009 movie version:



On February 7, 2009 before the exclusive New York Comic Con screening of the DC Universe "Wonder Woman" Animated Original Movie, I got the chance to interview Lauren Montgomery about her character design and how she approached the direction of the movie. After the interview, Lauren was kind enough to grant my request for a quick Wonder Woman sketch. Thank you Lauren!



Check out an MPEG of Lauren sketching for me:

>> http://experiencethewonder.com/print...ery_Sketch.php

[hichaec]

I actually love JLU Wonder Woman, though I acknowledge that she is very different from her comics-counterpart. I guess I don't see anything particularly wrong with that - she's a different character, to me, and I think she's just great. There were enough aspects of comics-Diana in her characterization to make her recognizable, but enough differences to make her unique. I think animated Batman is also pretty spectacularly different from comics Batman, but that's okay; I love both of them, too.

The animated movie that came out recently, though - I really, really disliked it. I didn't hate it specifically because of how Diana came off, though that certainly didn't help. In general I just found the whole thing to be incredibly problematic and thus very not-fun for me. :(

I do have to agree with ExperienceTheWonder, though - the costume was pretty amazing.

[WorstThingUS]

No till this day I have no clear idea what Diana was supposed to be. Her stealing the armor is something Diana would NEVER do. As a member of the Trinity she was used as a tool in this series. She showed very little of the wisdom and compassion she is known for. She would make a lousy Ambassador btw with her arrogance.

Considering that comics Diana gained the armor by going against her mother's wishes and sneaking into the contest because she wanted to see the outside world, this is hardly a jump. Not to mention the JL animated series opens with her origin, so you're basically seeing Wonder Woman Year One, so she's clearly not the same mature Wonder Woman from the comics.

Hot tempered? Superman? Are you kidding me? Diana pulls her fists back at everyone,even Gods. Diana is what I would equate to trigger happy and thinks that is the answer to everything. She asks a question and if you don't answer..bam she's ready to punch. I never saw Batman or Superman using that tact. Diana just by being who she is shouldn't have to resort to bullying. She had a lasso too if I remember well but seems Timm forgot about that.:rolleyes: [/B]

As another poster points out, she didn't learn the power of the lasso until the final season, but maybe you were gone by then. Which would also explain how you missed Superman beating the living crap out of Captain Marvel and going so crazy with a need to kill Darkseid he's willing to die to do it. These are adaptations. There's not supposed to be exactly like the comic. Save Batman, everyone is a bit different. Wally is ten times smarter than The Flash here. Jon Stewart was never the hard-ass the animated version was. And Aquaman...forget it. They're not exactly the same and they're not supposed to be. It's not just you, but all comics fans tend to miss that.

WW is historically more empathetic.

To the complete betrayal of her, her friends and the world? I don't think so.

What do you mean they did not evolve? This show was a love letter to Batman. Did you see Epilogue? Did you see how Batman uses his kindness and empathy to deal with Ace? Did you see how Superman deal with Draaga and Mongul? They are not novices in the world with a temper. And Diana was chasing Batman and giving him looks in very panel they share and he is so kind to keep her at bay. Even when she can't get a date she cracks a Gargoyle's head. Sheesh.

You mean 70-year-old Batman who was previously developed in the Batman Beyond series, which is all that episode really, the Batman Beyond finale they never got to do. And I've cited examples of a hot-headed Superman. Even in the final episode, he's relishing the opportunity to just pound on Darkseid. And you're totally exaggerating about Wonder Woman and Batman. Their relationship was the definition of subtle. Not to mention your ignoring that she smashes the statue when he suggests she can't protect herself against his enemies, not because she can't get a date.

The real kick in the teeth to me is when the producer said he never knew what to do with WW nor got her. So pardon me if I don't like this incarnation.[/B]

He did a pretty good job for someone who claimed not to get her. And you don't have to like it, but it's clear you're letting your resentment blind you to aspects of the series that would clearly poke holes in your worldview.

[ChrisDonaghy]

Hmm, detecting a hostile tone here...

Anyway, as I said earlier, it's not the dialogue I objected to, since most of it was the same as in the comic. It's that the dialogue came across much differently due to Lawless's performance, which tended to be more on the angry side. As for my "old hat critique," I understand that lots of stuff had to be edited out due to time constraints. That's why I specifically mentioned that they actually added a scene with Wonder Woman on the beach, which wasn't in the comic. And in that scene, Diana comes across as too aggressive, IMO. They could have just as easily kept the scene with Diana talking to the President and not used the scene on the beach without adding to the length of the movie, and it would have been a more balanced portrayal of Wonder Woman.

None intended, at all. I simply pointed out that the added scene was totally different from you description of it as "fighting an Amazon who's talking of overthrowing the Queen." I would have liked to see the scene you mentioned -- although it's hinted at when Diana and Superman both reference her disillusionment with America since the war. I'm guessing they added the workout with Mala to get as many ideas as possible into the compressed film. That's always a risky move at best.

We do agree that the film needed more time and room -- but that is a common caveat regarding the movie. Hope that sounds better than what I originally wrote.

Since the only times we see Diana in the movie are in Indochina, this sequence, and in the climactic battle (where the guys on the beach needed her to rally them at that point), there wasn't time to show much outside the warrior. Casting Lucy Lawless made it impossible for people to come to the film without that preconceived notion, as well. Unless you were Green Lantern, Flash or maybe Batman (whose role was expanded from the original GN), character depth was not going to happen in the time constraints they had.

Hope that doesn't come across as still hostile -- but Diana standing up for what she thinks is right isn't bitchy. She smacks around Viet Minh (not Cong yet) who are keeping women in tiger cages and tells Kal to back off when he tut-tuts about it. The only other aggression she shows is fighting against the same monsters we are led to believe trashed Paradise Island. You'd have a hard time convincing me that neither of those instances weren't justified.

[PabloD]

I haven't seen too much animated WW. I mean, I watched the Superfriends as a kid, but I frankly can't remember much of it (other than it wasn't a very good show). I haven't seen much JL/JLU either. I did see the animated movie a few weeks ago, and while I thought it had a few issues, I really...really enjoyed seeing Diana fighting. I mean, Jesus, they really went all out to make sure the fighting looked cool. I know I found myself actually, audibly cheering for her once or twice while she was kicking ass.