CBR: Alex Ross Lights "The Torch"

[CBR News]

The painter and co-writer behind the miniseries reviving the Golden Age Marvel,
Alex Ross talks to CBR News about the villainous stories that set his new take in
motion and the secret origin of Toro.


Full article here.

[coconutphone]

I love Ross' Torch. Not sure I'll get this though, especially if t's a $3.99er.

[FZ1]

Nothing against the original Torch, but, after reading the awful "Avengers/Invaders," I'm not crazy about Alex Ross messing with the delicate continuity cleanup job that Brubaker has done so well. Heck, just bringing Toro back ruins one of the most poignant moments in the awesome Winter Soldier one-shot, "Winter Kills."

I can't believe that Ross wanted to bring Toro back--with the Cosmic Cube deux ex machina-- as part of Brubaker's Cap run. No wonder Brubaker turned him down.

[Dr Blade]

Are they ignoring Hammond's history with the West Coast Avengers?

[Comicbookfan]

This looks really good.

[cookie_boy2000]

err, does Ross know that John Byrne revived the torch (and used Toro's widow) in west coast avengers?

That was a great way to re-introduce him.

Still recall the way the Vision looked into his coffin - great picture.

I hope this isn't another "give Ross what he wants and to hell with the continuity" scam.

[The Shadow]

I like Ross, I like the golden age heroes so I added it at my LCS today.

[Leocomix]

Nothing against the original Torch, but, after reading the awful "Avengers/Invaders," I'm not crazy about Alex Ross messing with the delicate continuity cleanup job that Brubaker has done so well. Heck, just bringing Toro back ruins one of the most poignant moments in the awesome Winter Soldier one-shot, "Winter Kills."

I can't believe that Ross wanted to bring Toro back--with the Cosmic Cube deux ex machina-- as part of Brubaker's Cap run. No wonder Brubaker turned him down.

"delicate continuity cleanup"? You're kidding, right? It's a retcon that doesn't fully match the established stories. Plus Cap already used teh cube to restore Bucky's memory

If there is a delicate continuity cleanup, it's from Ross in Avengers/invaders.

[Jimmy Holograph]

"delicate continuity cleanup"? You're kidding, right? It's a retcon that doesn't fully match the established stories. Plus Cap already used teh cube to restore Bucky's memory

If there is a delicate continuity cleanup, it's from Ross in Avengers/invaders.

Brubaker and Ross both have their pet characters, in Bucky and the Torch/Toro respectively. The difference here is that Brubaker is just a plain better writer than Ross is. They've both bent (if not broken) continuity to cater for their characters, but Brubaker has done so to honour stories written by previous writers, and better serving the characters than what Ross has.

There is a reason they gave The Marvels Project to Brubaker and not Ross, who I'm sure would have wanted it.

And I disagree completely about Avengers/Invaders. It was a crap story that didn't fit anywhere in already established continuity, that was trying to make statements about Civil War two years after it had ended.

[XPac]

I'd be more excited about Ross' stuff if he painted a few interiors.

Anyways, I wasn't a big fan of a lot of the writing of Avengers/Invaders. Still, I do feel a certian passion for these older characters, and agree that they should be pushed more.

So I hope he suceeds, and am willing to at least give it a shot.

An Invaders book would be cool somewhere down the line, with Namor, Torch, and maybe BUcky if Cap returns and retakes his Avengers spot (Cap in my mind is more Avenger than Invader at this point).

[FZ1]

"delicate continuity cleanup"? You're kidding, right? It's a retcon that doesn't fully match the established stories. Plus Cap already used teh cube to restore Bucky's memory

If there is a delicate continuity cleanup, it's from Ross in Avengers/invaders.

Brubaker is smoothing out the whole Cap history. If there was a retcon, it was Stan deciding in the 1960s that Bucky died during WW2. Brubaker fixed the biggest retcon in the history of comics. He has and is nicely tying up loose ends, like dealing with the 50s Cap, a coherent WW2 flashback history, etc.

Alex Ross Inc. just grabbed a bunch of existing, MU-wide plot lines, mashed them together just so he could tell an Invaders story...terribly. Cheers!

[Leocomix]

Brubaker and Ross both have their pet characters, in Bucky and the Torch/Toro respectively. The difference here is that Brubaker is just a plain better writer than Ross is. They've both bent (if not broken) continuity to cater for their characters, but Brubaker has done so to honour stories written by previous writers, and better serving the characters than what Ross has.

There is a reason they gave The Marvels Project to Brubaker and not Ross, who I'm sure would have wanted it.

And I disagree completely about Avengers/Invaders. It was a crap story that didn't fit anywhere in already established continuity, that was trying to make statements about Civil War two years after it had ended.

Well, my point was that "delicate continuity cleanup" sure doesn't describe what Brubaker has done and it still stands. Just to make it clear, in the original stories, Bucky was a boy who stumbled onto Cap changing and who blackmailed him. He wasn't a teenager commando fully trained to be his partner. Bucky didn't use guns in the golden age stories I read, just on a few covers. Brubaker also changed what happens in their last Zemo mission. None of this is saying that Brubaker's writing isn't great. Not sure which previous writers are honoured by all this? At least, Ross didn't twist Toro's history to have him returned.

[Leocomix]

Brubaker is smoothing out the whole Cap history. If there was a retcon, it was Stan deciding in the 1960s that Bucky died during WW2. Brubaker fixed the biggest retcon in the history of comics. He has and is nicely tying up loose ends, like dealing with the 50s Cap, a coherent WW2 flashback history, etc.

Alex Ross Inc. just grabbed a bunch of existing, MU-wide plot lines, mashed them together just so he could tell an Invaders story...terribly. Cheers!

Brubaker didn't fix the Lee retcon. If he had done so, the postwar and fifties adventures of Cap and Bucky would have been those of the originals. He used that retcon. The events added by Lee still exist. Brubaker knows how not to fix a great development when he sees one. He also deliberately turned Bucky from a kid to a twenty-year old in 1945. Meaning he has the same problem with Bucky being a kid that Lee had.
Don't mistake me. It's great but don't say it's not a retcon. Retcons can be great writing.

[FZ1]

Well, my point was that "delicate continuity cleanup" sure doesn't describe what Brubaker has done and it still stands. Just to make it clear, in the original stories, Bucky was a boy who stumbled onto Cap changing and who blackmailed him. He wasn't a teenager commando fully trained to be his partner. Bucky didn't use guns in the golden age stories I read, just on a few covers. Brubaker also changed what happens in their last Zemo mission. None of this is saying that Brubaker's writing isn't great. Not sure which previous writers are honoured by all this? At least, Ross didn't twist Toro's history to have him returned.

Yeah, but the Zemo stuff and the buzz bomb etc. was all retcon to begin with. Brubaker took that stuff and made everything make sense whilst creating a great new character to boot.

But, since you're pretty high on retro Ross baloney, I'm gonna agree to disagree.

[FZ1]

Brubaker didn't fix the Lee retcon. If he had done so, the postwar and fifties adventures of Cap and Bucky would have been those of the originals. He used that retcon. The events added by Lee still exist. Brubaker knows how not to fix a great development when he sees one. He also deliberately turned Bucky from a kid to a twenty-year old in 1945. Meaning he has the same problem with Bucky being a kid that Lee had.
Don't mistake me. It's great but don't say it's not a retcon. Retcons can be great writing.

Yeah, I agree, totally, Stan the Man brought Cap back and dealt with the 50s replacements wonderfully. And Brubaker took it even further and made it richer. So, yeah, they were retcons and they were freaking awesome. I wasn't bashing Stan. He'd kick my ass.