Hank Pym Appreciation

[bad trotsky]

I am hoping Pym redeems him self. I am a fan.

[StoneGold]

I am hoping Pym redeems him self. I am a fan.

He's never going to truly redeem himself. When it comes to fiction, wife beating is like being an alcoholic - you're never cured, you're just in perpetual recovery.

[pryde15]

I thought appreciation threads weren't allowed on the Avengers forum...?

[RunningWithJuanPablo]

he in civil war was an alien impersonating pym. the real did not return till the last issue of SI

True true, I read SI before Civil War, CW only recently, so it slipped my mind.

[daveageallen]

He's never going to truly redeem himself. When it comes to fiction, wife beating is like being an alcoholic - you're never cured, you're just in perpetual recovery.

yeah but being reed richards or peter parker gives you a free pass to get away with anything you want. like beating your wife.

[XPac]

yeah but being reed richards or peter parker gives you a free pass to get away with anything you want. like beating your wife.

Hank doing it was a part of something bigger though. He slapped his wife while building a giant robot to attack the Avengers. Also... he slapped his wife while she was in a nightgown. I know that sounds like a small trival thing, but it actually does make a difference.

But beyond that, the REAL reason it's easy for Reed or Peter to move on from that (or just about anything else) is that they're interesting enough characters to do that. Hank always came off as a rather generic hero when he wasn't dealing with his wife slapping issues or building Ultron. Those were really the only times he was that interesting a character.

Even now, his issues are still very much Wasp related. Other characters like Tony and Reed are STILL focusing on his short comings. That may change in the future if the characters push can be sustained over the years... but right now Pym is a character largely built around his faults. There's not a whole lot else there which readers or writers have really latched onto over the years.

[thog]

For the Pym fans, back in 2004 someone asked Kurt Busiek on his thoughts on Hank. Scroll down to May 31 and read them here.

[Monty_Cristo]

For the Pym fans, back in 2004 someone asked Kurt Busiek on his thoughts on Hank. Scroll down to May 31 and read them here.

he sounds delusional. he mentions plenty of writers referencing Pym's therapy. who were the writers? what issues is he talking about? he's full of it. Jan sought out therapy. i can reference that issue. we meet her shrink Doctor Rosen right before she grows to giant size and collapses. where was Pym shown getting help (his skrull impersonator was more responsible in that regard)? and Pym was just fine before someone put him back into the Yellowjacket costume. and, no, it wasn't Geoff Johns doing.

I thought appreciation threads weren't allowed on the Avengers forum...?

Pym had an entire week to himself on these boards, not too long ago. i'm pretty sure there was a "say nice things about hank pym" thread created then, too.

[XPac]

he sounds delusional. he mentions plenty of writers referencing Pym's therapy. who were the writers? what issues is he talking about? he's full of it. Jan sought out therapy. i can reference that issue. we meet her shrink Doctor Rosen right before she grows to giant size and collapses. where was Pym shown getting help (his skrull impersonator was more responsible in that regard)? and Pym was just fine before someone put him back into the Yellowjacket costume. and, no, it wasn't Geoff Johns doing.



Pym had an entire week to himself on these boards, not too long ago. i'm pretty sure there was a "say nice things about hank pym" thread created then, too.

It is kind funny how they went out of their way to show Skrull Pym getting therapy, but they never (at least to my knowledge) showed Pym getting any professional help.

[Monty_Cristo]

It is kind funny how they went out of their way to show Skrull Pym getting therapy, but they never (at least to my knowledge) showed Pym getting any professional help.

oh well. i guess it's a step in the right direction. it surprises me more that they showed Jan in therapy before Hank.

[Babylon23]

Personally I think Busiek makes some excellent points, especially in his analysis of some of the other Marvel heroes who have gone crazy and attacked people. But for some reason Hank just keeps getting dumped with the wife-beater label, while others get a free pass because they're more popular characters.

[GHalecki]

Hank doing it was a part of something bigger though. He slapped his wife while building a giant robot to attack the Avengers. Also... he slapped his wife while she was in a nightgown. I know that sounds like a small trival thing, but it actually does make a difference.

But beyond that, the REAL reason it's easy for Reed or Peter to move on from that (or just about anything else) is that they're interesting enough characters to do that. Hank always came off as a rather generic hero when he wasn't dealing with his wife slapping issues or building Ultron. Those were really the only times he was that interesting a character.

Even now, his issues are still very much Wasp related. Other characters like Tony and Reed are STILL focusing on his short comings. That may change in the future if the characters push can be sustained over the years... but right now Pym is a character largely built around his faults. There's not a whole lot else there which readers or writers have really latched onto over the years.

You are correct about it being part of something bigger. It happened while he was in the process of having a major psychotic break, that had been building for years. The break was triggered, at least in part, by Cap being a HUGE prick to Hank. It was also part of a larger overall charachter arc that showed a hero fall to the absolute lowest points, and then begin his climb back up through determination, self realization of his flaws and inadiquicies, and a desire to make up for doing something that he will never fully forgive himself for.

As opposed to Reed or Peter, who did it because they were having a bad day.

[GHalecki]

It is kind funny how they went out of their way to show Skrull Pym getting therapy, but they never (at least to my knowledge) showed Pym getting any professional help.

I really don't remember where, but I am positive that I did read a passing mention of it somewhere where Hank mentions having gotten some kind of help at some point from a shrink. I think that it was somewhere not too long before The Crossing, but can't remember where.

[XPac]

You are correct about it being part of something bigger. It happened while he was in the process of having a major psychotic break, that had been building for years. The break was triggered, at least in part, by Cap being a HUGE prick to Hank. It was also part of a larger overall charachter arc that showed a hero fall to the absolute lowest points, and then begin his climb back up through determination, self realization of his flaws and inadiquicies, and a desire to make up for doing something that he will never fully forgive himself for.

As opposed to Reed or Peter, who did it because they were having a bad day.

Wasn't Reed slapping Sue to free her from Hate Mongers control?

[Monty_Cristo]

You are correct about it being part of something bigger. It happened while he was in the process of having a major psychotic break, that had been building for years. The break was triggered, at least in part, by Cap being a HUGE prick to Hank. It was also part of a larger overall charachter arc that showed a hero fall to the absolute lowest points, and then begin his climb back up through determination, self realization of his flaws and inadiquicies, and a desire to make up for doing something that he will never fully forgive himself for.

As opposed to Reed or Peter, who did it because they were having a bad day.

wow. could you be any more dishonest? Reed struck Sue as a strategic move to snap her out of the Malice persona. it wasn't done as a sign of disrespect or because she was in the way (like w/ Jan).

and Peter was in the midst of a life crisis. this was clone wars era. and Mary Jane was struck while sneaking up on Peter from behind while he was fighting someone.

if you're trying to defend that wife beater Pym casting false aspersions about other characters isn't the way to do it. just makes me hate Pym even more.