Captain Britain/Otherworld questions

[seekquaze]

Okay, recently I read Captain Britain: Die by the Sword and it left me confused about somethings related to this.

1. Is the Otherworld Roma lives in the same Otherworld Avalon, the Celtic gods, Oberon, and other such beings live in?

2. If the Starlight Citadel has technology advanced enough to somehow delete an entire universe how could the Skrulls invade?

3. Is there only one Otherworld in the entire multiverse?

4. If there is more than one, does the Starlight Citadel exist simultaneously in all the Otherworlds across the multiverse?

5. What is the Starlight Citadel's relationship to the Celtic gods and other beings that inhabit Otherworld?

6. How serious is this whole "Omniversal ruler/protector bit?" From what I've seen at best Captian Britain Corps works out of a number of realities, but is not much different than the temporal empire of Kang or something similar? How can Roma/Merlyn (or anyone controlling it) claim to really be ruler of the everything?

7. If the Starlight Citadel does only exist in one reality isn't it possible there are other Starlight Citadel's out there?

8. What exactly is Merlyn? What is his relationship to Merlin? From the latest Captain Britain series and after reading some profiles I was left with the impression that Merlyn was from one reality who somehow merged with a large number of his other dimensional counterparts, sent up the Starlight Citadel to monitor all or at least a section of the multiverse, went mad, and was eventually overcome by the Merlin aspect from 616. Is this correct?

9. What exactly is Roma? Is she like Merlyn a merge of different beings? Is it known which reality she comes from?

10. If the whole "Omniverse ruler" part is serious than how does either one find the time to manipulate/monitor events across infinity?

11. How powerful is Oberon or the average inhabitant of Otherworld compared to a normal human? I do not mean physical differences, but for instance are the giants about as strong as the giants of the Norse mythos who are roughly on par with the Norse gods?

12. What makes Brian Braddock so special? As Saturyne said the Corps had existed for generations before him and had thousands (if not more) recurits?

13. When Brian was ruler of Otherworld, was that just for Earth-616 or did he become ruler of the multiverse/omniverse?

14. Isn't claiming to be overseeing the whole Omniverse a little arrogant? Wouldn't that imply control over other universes like DC as well along with dimensions radically alien to the Earth dimension with forms of being totally incomprehensible to humans along with dominions over plans of existence where only the abstracts or other higher beings dwell?

15. Was it ever made clear how exactly an entire universe is destroyed by the Starlight Citadel?


Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

[Loki]

Okay, recently I read Captain Britain: Die by the Sword and it left me confused about somethings related to this.

1. Is the Otherworld Roma lives in the same Otherworld Avalon, the Celtic gods, Oberon, and other such beings live in?

Yes.

2. If the Starlight Citadel has technology advanced enough to somehow delete an entire universe how could the Skrulls invade?

Because you can't really afford to delete the universe you are in. Plus, the people who had access to that tech are limited in number - Roma (dead right now), Merlyn (at the time the invasion started he was trapped in the darker realms), and Saturnyne (quite possibly absent elsewhere when the invasion started).

3. Is there only one Otherworld in the entire multiverse?

It appears to be an intersection, so probably yes. Hence why a reality wave in 616 (HoM) hitting Otherworld through a reality breach in 616 (the place where Excalibur's lighthouse/Merlyn's tower, which was linked across all the realities, had stood and had been destroyed) was seen to hit other realities too.

4. If there is more than one, does the Starlight Citadel exist simultaneously in all the Otherworlds across the multiverse?

If there's more than one Otherworld, then we don't know.

5. What is the Starlight Citadel's relationship to the Celtic gods and other beings that inhabit Otherworld?

Neighbours.

6. How serious is this whole "Omniversal ruler/protector bit?" From what I've seen at best Captian Britain Corps works out of a number of realities, but is not much different than the temporal empire of Kang or something similar? How can Roma/Merlyn (or anyone controlling it) claim to really be ruler of the everything?

Possibly just boasting / overstating. Or the intent to protect the entire Omniverse is there, but in practice they mostly deal with a smaller section - the Avengers protect the world, but most of the time they operate in and save only small parts of the world, like NYC.

7. If the Starlight Citadel does only exist in one reality isn't it possible there are other Starlight Citadel's out there?

Could be.

8. What exactly is Merlyn? What is his relationship to Merlin?

Merlyn is Merlin. Species is unsure. Has claimed to be son of the Devil (making him the original Son of Satan), has also claimed to have once been a student of Necrom. Trouble is, he's a known manipulator and lier, so any story he tells has to be taken with a pinch of salt.

From the latest Captain Britain series and after reading some profiles I was left with the impression that Merlyn was from one reality who somehow merged with a large number of his other dimensional counterparts, sent up the Starlight Citadel to monitor all or at least a section of the multiverse, went mad, and was eventually overcome by the Merlin aspect from 616. Is this correct?

More or less. He's a gestalt being. Merlyn is Merlin is Myrr is Myrrdin is a whole host of other Merlin counterparts across the multiverse - possibly across the entire Omniverse. In some ways he's the opposite of Immortus - there is only one Immortus across the multiverse; there are thousands of Merlins, but all of them are Merlyn. Except for the imposters. And yes, one of his insane aspects took over for a bit, but that aspect has been expunged.

9. What exactly is Roma? Is she like Merlyn a merge of different beings? Is it known which reality she comes from?

Merlyn's daughter, yes, we don't know - in that order.

10. If the whole "Omniverse ruler" part is serious than how does either one find the time to manipulate/monitor events across infinity?

Possibly by letting his different component Merlins work independently a lot of the time. He definitely has subordinates who handle some stuff - Saturnyne's Dimensional Development Committee for example. And entirely possible he simply doesn't monitor everything, but does his best to manage the more important stuff.

11. How powerful is Oberon or the average inhabitant of Otherworld compared to a normal human? I do not mean physical differences, but for instance are the giants about as strong as the giants of the Norse mythos who are roughly on par with the Norse gods?

Highly variable, and we've got minimal info on exact power levels. Oberon is very tough from what we've seen. The Celtic Gods are more or less on a par with the other pantheons. I don't think Otherworld's trolls are quite as strong as the likes of Ulik.

12. What makes Brian Braddock so special? As Saturyne said the Corps had existed for generations before him and had thousands (if not more) recurits?

If we believe what Brian has been told (always take that kind of info that he got from Otherworld sources with a pinch of salt), then he was hand picked to be an heir to the throne of Otherworld, which separates him from his peers in the Corps.

13. When Brian was ruler of Otherworld, was that just for Earth-616 or did he become ruler of the multiverse/omniverse?

Ruled Otherworld, protector but not ruler of the rest of the multiverse (maybe Omniverse, IF Merlyn's not just overstating his remit).

14. Isn't claiming to be overseeing the whole Omniverse a little arrogant?

Yes. Merlyn is many things, humble is not one of them. He's definitely capable of being very arrogant, the question is whether his arrogance is justified.

Wouldn't that imply control over other universes like DC as well along with dimensions radically alien to the Earth dimension with forms of being totally incomprehensible to humans along with dominions over plans of existence where only the abstracts or other higher beings dwell?

Yes. Omniversal remit would cover ALL that.

15. Was it ever made clear how exactly an entire universe is destroyed by the Starlight Citadel?

Not the specific mechanics, no.

[seekquaze]

Because you can't really afford to delete the universe you are in. Plus, the people who had access to that tech are limited in number - Roma (dead right now), Merlyn (at the time the invasion started he was trapped in the darker realms), and Saturnyne (quite possibly absent elsewhere when the invasion started).

I would have thought it would have powerful weapons to defend it in case anyone attacked directly, but upon reflection it seems to have relied heavily on the Captain Britain Corps for protection from direct threats with defenses minimal.

It appears to be an intersection, so probably yes. Hence why a reality wave in 616 (HoM) hitting Otherworld through a reality breach in 616 (the place where Excalibur's lighthouse/Merlyn's tower, which was linked across all the realities, had stood and had been destroyed) was seen to hit other realities too.

So the Starlight Citadel could at the very least be like one of those Nexus of Realities that Man-thing guards, Crossroads of Infinity, or a place where many if not all realities somehow have a gateway to? Something similar to those?

If there's more than one Otherworld, then we don't know.

This may just be nonsense, but if the Celtic gods exist in each separate reality than wouldn't that necessitate an Otherworld for them to exist in? Could this possible mean the Starlight Citadel exists only in one reality, but has gateways to others? Or that it somehow separates itself from the rest of Otherworld? Afterall, what would happen if a dozen Leirs suddenly payed you a visit.

Possibly just boasting / overstating. Or the intent to protect the entire Omniverse is there, but in practice they mostly deal with a smaller section - the Avengers protect the world, but most of the time they operate in and save only small parts of the world, like NYC.

I think that would have to be true. I recall one time seeing a scan from a comic where Zarroko the Tomorrow man had a map of how different temoral organizations divided up the multiverse. These include Kang's empire, the Congress of Realities, Time Variance Authorities, etc. I would think some of them would not be please with interference in realities under their control. That and some like the TVA at least have a known established set up for monitoring realities (each time a new timeline comes into being a new TVA employee comes into being.

Merlyn is Merlin. Species is unsure. Has claimed to be son of the Devil (making him the original Son of Satan), has also claimed to have once been a student of Necrom. Trouble is, he's a known manipulator and lier, so any story he tells has to be taken with a pinch of salt.

So, pretty much anything Merlyn and to a lesser extent Roma tells you have to take with doubt because it could very well be a lie. You can only hope that it is truly for the greater good.

More or less. He's a gestalt being. Merlyn is Merlin is Myrr is Myrrdin is a whole host of other Merlin counterparts across the multiverse - possibly across the entire Omniverse. In some ways he's the opposite of Immortus - there is only one Immortus across the multiverse; there are thousands of Merlins, but all of them are Merlyn. Except for the imposters. And yes, one of his insane aspects took over for a bit, but that aspect has been expunged.

IIRC, there is only one Immortus because while in Limbo Immortus does not create divergents and he can control time to such an extent to prevent divergents when he interacts with normal space/time. That and the events that led to him being Immortus were so specific they are almost impossible to repeat. But you still have numerous versions of Kang ranging from heroes to villains out there. Which reminds me, didn't Kang one time absorb a number if not all of his known temporal counterparts and end up going insane to he created one divergent to absorb the insanity?

Merlyn on the other hand was repeated on numerous worlds with on many he was a wizard of some type an on one Earth Merlyn came to power and found a way to merge himself with, and by default, gathering the skills, abilities, etc. of his counterparts. And the Merlyn whose personality was dominant would presumable be the one who initiated the merger right?

Merlyn's daughter, yes, we don't know - in that order.

So he could have done the same process to her or even experimented on her to before testing the process on himself?

If we believe what Brian has been told (always take that kind of info that he got from Otherworld sources with a pinch of salt), then he was hand picked to be an heir to the throne of Otherworld, which separates him from his peers in the Corps.

Of course, that raises the questions of all the different Bradocks out there why was he handpicked. A whim on Merlyn's part?

Ruled Otherworld, protector but not ruler of the rest of the multiverse (maybe Omniverse, IF Merlyn's not just overstating his remit).

Somehow I can't help but feel Merlyn is overstating it a bit. Afterall, how many characters in comics get egos and begin to think they are the greatest things in the universe? Even the good guys sometimes get that way.



Finally, from what I've read I was left with the impression that Merlyn is closer to what could be considered a scientist instead of a sorcerer. He went insane, but this allowed one of the Merlins he had absorbed to remove that Merlyn (if he was the one who initiated the merger and not the personaility that formed from the merger) than that allowed another Merlin the Wizard from possible Earth-616 to take over. So, in a sense we have a whole new Merlin. Does this make any sense?

[Loki]

I would have thought it would have powerful weapons to defend it in case anyone attacked directly, but upon reflection it seems to have relied heavily on the Captain Britain Corps for protection from direct threats with defenses minimal.

Otherworld has always apparently depended more on it's inhabitants to defend it than weapons. Mind you, it has some pretty powerful inhabitants.

So the Starlight Citadel could at the very least be like one of those Nexus of Realities that Man-thing guards, Crossroads of Infinity, or a place where many if not all realities somehow have a gateway to? Something similar to those?

It could be, but at the end of the day, we really don't know. We've not really been told enough about it to draw conclusions.

This may just be nonsense, but if the Celtic gods exist in each separate reality than wouldn't that necessitate an Otherworld for them to exist in?

No, it's not nonsense. It's a good question. The truth is, we really don't know. Otherworld isn't tied to Earth-616, as we know it is also the Otherworld for other Earths. But, at the same time, the Celtic gods there are the 616 ones. Quite how that works has never been explained. It's noteworthy that Captain UK said when she visited Otherworld on her own, it looked completely different from the place she visited later for Merlyn's funeral. Best guess I can suggest is that Otherworld is, like Merlyn and Roma, somehow tied to its counterparts in other realities. In other words, there would be multiple Otherworlds, but Merlyn and Roma (when she was alive) inhabited them all simultaneously, and, if you think of alternate realities as being stacked one above the other, in that stack the distance between Otherworlds is much less than it is for other dimensions within the stack - e.g. if Earth-616 was a mile above Earth-615, making travel between the two a little tricky, Otherworld-616 is only an inch above Otherworld-615, making everything a lot closer.

But I'm guessing, and it may just be that somehow the different versions of the Celtic gods co-exist in the same Otherworld, slightly out of synch with each other in some pan-dimensional physics way that human brains can't comprehend.

Could this possible mean the Starlight Citadel exists only in one reality, but has gateways to others? Or that it somehow separates itself from the rest of Otherworld? Afterall, what would happen if a dozen Leirs suddenly payed you a visit.

Yes, those might both be possibilities. And I guess a dozen Leirs visiting at the same time is no more problematic than having a dozen Captain Britains showing up.

I think that would have to be true. I recall one time seeing a scan from a comic where Zarroko the Tomorrow man had a map of how different temoral organizations divided up the multiverse. These include Kang's empire, the Congress of Realities, Time Variance Authorities, etc. I would think some of them would not be please with interference in realities under their control.

Merlyn definitely does interfere in realities those guys consider their dominion - and we know Kang resents it, since he had a pawn invade Otherworld.

That and some like the TVA at least have a known established set up for monitoring realities (each time a new timeline comes into being a new TVA employee comes into being.

We haven't seen how all these guys interact. Some are self-appointed authorities, so how much respect the others would give them is unsure. We know Merlyn and Roma worked with the approval of Eternity, which is more than we know for sure about most of the others.

So, pretty much anything Merlyn and to a lesser extent Roma tells you have to take with doubt because it could very well be a lie. You can only hope that it is truly for the greater good.

Yes, pretty much. Merlyn and Roma do seem to have good intentions, but they will lie and manipulate and sacrifice people if they deem it for the greater good - Roma with a bit more regret than her father, but that won't stop her.

IIRC, there is only one Immortus because while in Limbo Immortus does not create divergents and he can control time to such an extent to prevent divergents when he interacts with normal space/time.

Correct.

That and the events that led to him being Immortus were so specific they are almost impossible to repeat. But you still have numerous versions of Kang ranging from heroes to villains out there. Which reminds me, didn't Kang one time absorb a number if not all of his known temporal counterparts and end up going insane to he created one divergent to absorb the insanity?

Yes, pretty much.

Merlyn on the other hand was repeated on numerous worlds

Yes.

with on many he was a wizard of some type

Yes

an on one Earth Merlyn came to power

Some Merlyn's might have been rulers, but we don't have evidence of that.

and found a way to merge himself with,

He got merged - we don't know if he found a way, or if it was accidental, or what. The account he has given suggests it was accidental, but doesn't explain why his daughter is also a gestalt (though that could be because she was born after he became one, and thus just inherited that unusual property).

and by default, gathering the skills, abilities, etc. of his counterparts.

Yes.

And the Merlyn whose personality was dominant would presumable be the one who initiated the merger right?

Unknown - again, it might be the personality is normally a blend of the whole, rather than a single part being dominant. And, assuming the merger was deliberately initiated, we don't know for sure the one who arranged the merger got to be dominant.

So he could have done the same process to her or even experimented on her to before testing the process on himself?

Possibly. We really don't know. All we do know for sure is that she is a gestalt.

Of course, that raises the questions of all the different Bradocks out there why was he handpicked. A whim on Merlyn's part?

If Merlyn was telling the truth about Brian, it might have been because Reality-616's Jim Jaspers was the most dangerous of all the Jaspers' alternates. Or it could be a whim. Or he could have "handpicked" a whole bunch, and Brian-616 is just the one who (1) survived, and (2) distinguished himself best.

Somehow I can't help but feel Merlyn is overstating it a bit. Afterall, how many characters in comics get egos and begin to think they are the greatest things in the universe? Even the good guys sometimes get that way.

He could well be. And he might not even be overstating due to ego - a strong reputation can dissuade people from trying to take you on.

Finally, from what I've read I was left with the impression that Merlyn is closer to what could be considered a scientist instead of a sorcerer.

He's both, and in both cases at levels where one is virtually indistinguishable from the other.

He went insane, but this allowed one of the Merlins he had absorbed to remove that Merlyn (if he was the one who initiated the merger and not the personaility that formed from the merger) than that allowed another Merlin the Wizard from possible Earth-616 to take over. So, in a sense we have a whole new Merlin. Does this make any sense?

Part of him went insane, and was removed. Which part (despite the appearance of the insane one, we can't be sure it was the one who we normally saw), and how much that removal affected his overall personality, remains to be seen.

[Whitster]

I could be wrong, as I've only read it once, but didn't it have a reveal at the end of Excalibur Vol2 that Kang was actually somehow involved in Brian becoming the ruler of otherworld?

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Okay, recently I read Captain Britain: Die by the Sword and it left me confused about somethings related to this.

That does not surprise me. There are several things about Chris Claremont's most recent tenure with this mythos on New Excalibur, and then this mini, which have contradicted and ignored some of the more important parts of pas continuity.

1. Is the Otherworld Roma lives in the same Otherworld Avalon, the Celtic gods, Oberon, and other such beings live in?

One and the same, yes.

2. If the Starlight Citadel has technology advanced enough to somehow delete an entire universe how could the Skrulls invade?

At the time we are talking about there is no official 'Omniversal Guardian' in Otherworld. Largely due to Claremont's continuity errors. The first Guardian we encountered in Marvel was Merlyn. When he seemingly died during Captain Britain's 'Jaspers Warp' storyline his daughter, Roma, became the Guardian. She would later abdicate and transfer Guardianship to Brian Braddock (Which was always Merlyn's plan, and the reason he was 'testing' Captain Britain all these years) who had been given near limitless power by being the first mortal to successfully wield the Sword of Might and Amulet of Right, without them destroying him.

Claremont seemingly was not aware of this plot point when he brought Captain Britain back, during 2005's House of M. Roma (Who had stated that she was going to shortly 'go the way of her father,' i.e. appear to Die) was back in charge. She then died when her unhinged father returned in Die by the Sword and was responsible for her death.

At the point of the Skrull invasion the was no Guardian. Merlyn was locked away in that dimension of imprisoned demons and other evil entities. Without a guardian no more true Captain Britains can be created. Otherworld always relied heavily on the Captain Britain Corps to protect it. But as of Die by the Sword Claremont had killed all but a handful of them. A small unit led by Saturnyne and Albion, who went off into who knows where in the multiverse. Seemingly they did not return to aid Otherworld during the invasion.

3. Is there only one Otherworld in the entire multiverse?

Yes. It is effectively a dimension outside of dimensions. A realm which borders with ever universe in Marvel's multiverse, physically intersecting at the same point in each dimension - Britain.

4. If there is more than one, does the Starlight Citadel exist simultaneously in all the Otherworlds across the multiverse?

No. To our knowledge there is only one Otherworld.

5. What is the Starlight Citadel's relationship to the Celtic gods and other beings that inhabit Otherworld?

They are neighbours I guess. There are other regions to Otherworld which we have seen. Such as the temple of the Green Knight, seen in Knights of Pendragon.

6. How serious is this whole "Omniversal ruler/protector bit?" From what I've seen at best Captian Britain Corps works out of a number of realities, but is not much different than the temporal empire of Kang or something similar? How can Roma/Merlyn (or anyone controlling it) claim to really be ruler of the everything?

The role of the Guardian was taken quite seriously until Claremont confused it a few years back. The role of the Guardian is actually not so much to protect, but observe the multiverse. Occasionally, as Merlyn did, they would toy with certain universes, or try to force them to evolve. By and large it is the relationship between a God and Mortals. Which is pretty much exactly what the Guardian effectively is - a God.

The Corps were created as a way of policing problems across the multiverse. The Guardian would very rarely involve themselves directly with the fate of a Universe.

7. If the Starlight Citadel does only exist in one reality isn't it possible there are other Starlight Citadel's out there?

The idea is that there is only one Otherworld for a reason. It's a dimension possibly created by the very collective consciousness of an infinite number of britains, across the multiverse. They influence it. It influences them. That's why when that Universe's Captain Britain dies the whole Country feel the loss - even if they do not realise why.

Having more than one Otherworld would detract from that. It would not make a lot of sense.

8. What exactly is Merlyn? What is his relationship to Merlin? From the latest Captain Britain series and after reading some profiles I was left with the impression that Merlyn was from one reality who somehow merged with a large number of his other dimensional counterparts, sent up the Starlight Citadel to monitor all or at least a section of the multiverse, went mad, and was eventually overcome by the Merlin aspect from 616. Is this correct?

Kinda. Pretty much any time you have seen A Merlyn in Marvel, or in any off-shoot universe, that IS Merlyn. He is referred to as 'The God-Wizard,' a pan dimension being who may even be capable of appearing in multiple dimensions at once. He is effectively a God, cannot truly be killed (He's already died once and come back), with incredible magical power. He was the Omniversal Guardian since the days of the real King Arthur, and plausibly before.

9. What exactly is Roma? Is she like Merlyn a merge of different beings? Is it known which reality she comes from?

She is apparently his daughter, and seemingly very similar to him. She has the same kind of powers, and abilities. Although it's unclear as to who her actual mother is. And it's quite telling that Merlyn wanted Brian to succeed him, rather than her.

Roma is now dead, in part somehow merged with the X-Men's Sage - Although as with a lot of Claremont's recent changes this has never been properly explained, and the method and reasoning behind it is fuzzy at best. So she's not quite as powerful or immortal as her father, possibly. Unless she too comes back. I guess we'll have to see. But the suggestion has been that Roma, 'mistress of the northern skies,' is of the same people as her father.

10. If the whole "Omniverse ruler" part is serious than how does either one find the time to manipulate/monitor events across infinity?

Pan dimensional beings, who if no Omnipotent certainly appear to be able to spread their essence across multiple dimensions.

11. How powerful is Oberon or the average inhabitant of Otherworld compared to a normal human? I do not mean physical differences, but for instance are the giants about as strong as the giants of the Norse mythos who are roughly on par with the Norse gods?

Hard to call. We've never seen him in combat with a Norse God. So far there's be no logical reason for him to be.

12. What makes Brian Braddock so special? As Saturyne said the Corps had existed for generations before him and had thousands (if not more) recurits?

And I really hated that line. To which the answer should be "Well, D'UH, Saturnyne! Until a month or two ago he was Guardian of the multiverse, and your BOSS!" Only as Claremont never acknowledged that it doesn't make any sense. He just continued having characters making statements like this to try and cover up the huge continuity error he created by not acknowledging the events of Excalibur volume 2.

In short Brian Braddock (And Elisabeth 'Psylocke' Braddock, even older brother Jamie) were part of a scheme by Merlyn to create him a perfect heir to become Guardian after him. Brian is the result of an elaborate genetic selection project (Which possibly may have involved some level of genetic engineering) whereby the God Wizard took Brian's father (Sir James Braddock, who it is suggested was one of the original Captain Britain Corpsmen - making him pretty bloody long-lived) and found him the perfect gentic match from across the multiverse - a woman from Earth 616.

No matter how the birth came about Brian was the successful off-spring, powerful enough, and of sound enough mind, to posses and unite both sides of the Captain Britain mythos (Sword and Amulet) without being driven mad or having it tear him apart. That was how he appeared as a God in Chuck Austen's Avengers. The power given to him by uniting those two halves gave him the near powers of a God.

13. When Brian was ruler of Otherworld, was that just for Earth-616 or did he become ruler of the multiverse/omniverse?

He became Guardian of the whole Marvel Multiverse. Obviously a man being made a God cannot work out long term. And we should have had a story demonstrating that in action. House of M would have been a great opportunity. But like I say Claremont did not acknowledge that story ever happened.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

14. Isn't claiming to be overseeing the whole Omniverse a little arrogant? Wouldn't that imply control over other universes like DC as well along with dimensions radically alien to the Earth dimension with forms of being totally incomprehensible to humans along with dominions over plans of existence where only the abstracts or other higher beings dwell?

Arrogant? Yes. But it's not really control, so much as observation. Before Claremont made Merlyn purely 'evil,' while there were certainly some shades of grey moments, everything he was responsible was more like shepherding the smooth progress of the Omniverse. It was far less of an aggressive Overlord kind of position.

15. Was it ever made clear how exactly an entire universe is destroyed by the Starlight Citadel?

It's not destroyed, so much as cut off. During the Jaspers' Warp storyline the first Jim Jaspers Captain Britain encountered destabilised an entire Universe. It was falling apart, and rather than risk having it bleed that instability over into other universes, Saturnyne had it sheered off from Marvel's Omniverse. Whatever's left of it still exists, but it's no longer connected to the rest of Marvel's dimensions. It's inaccessible.

[Loki]

She would later abdicate and transfer Guardianship to Brian Braddock (Which was always Merlyn's plan, and the reason he was 'testing' Captain Britain all these years)

We've got to take it with a pinch of salt that making Brian the Guardian was Merlyn's plan - or at least, that it was his endgame. Anything they tell Brian, anything Mastermind (whose origins, after all, are tied to Otherworld too) tolds Brian, anything the hologram of his father (if it was really his father) told Brian, has to be taken with the usual Merlyn-sized pinch of salt. And the mini-series that ended with Brian in the role had its own share of continuity flubs - like Captain UK relating the wrong background for the Warpies, when she should be very aware of the correct one.

who had been given near limitless power by being the first mortal to successfully wield the Sword of Might and Amulet of Right, without them destroying him.

Again, got to query this, because we know of another Captain Britain who successfully wielded both. As with the story where we are expected to believe that Albion was the first Corpsman to take the Sword, and hence be rejected by Merlyn and Roma, there's something iffy about the reactions of Merlyn and Roma because we know others took the Sword and weren't rejected.

Yes. It is effectively a dimension outside of dimensions. A realm which borders with ever universe in Marvel's multiverse, physically intersecting at the same point in each dimension - Britain.

I'd agree, but seekquaze made a good point about the Celtic gods, which would also apply for the Pendragons of other realities. They do have counterparts in other realities, so how come we only see the 616 versions in Otherworld? I guess there's some funky pandimensional physics going on. One to ponder.

Roma is now dead, in part somehow merged with the X-Men's Sage - Although as with a lot of Claremont's recent changes this has never been properly explained, and the method and reasoning behind it is fuzzy at best. So she's not quite as powerful or immortal as her father, possibly. Unless she too comes back. I guess we'll have to see.

If Roma's memories are intact, in theory making a new body shouldn't be a big deal. So the question becomes, why would Roma want Sage to have access to her memories? Roma was involved in placing Psylocke on the Exiles; did she know the personalities running the Crystal Palace were about to end their tenure? Was she maneouvering a suitable replacement into position? And did she then, during Merlyn's attack, make a last minute decision that Sage would be a better option for this role than Psylocke?

But the suggestion has been that Roma, 'mistress of the northern skies,' is of the same people as her father.

Lady, not mistress. No hanky panky going on between Roma and the sky, thank you. :P

In short Brian Braddock (And Elisabeth 'Psylocke' Braddock,

Elizabeth. Elisabeth is a spelling error that seemingly started with the US reprints of Captain Britain in X-Men Archives, where some, but not all, of the times her name was given got relettered incorrectly.

It's not destroyed, so much as cut off. During the Jaspers' Warp storyline the first Jim Jaspers Captain Britain encountered destabilised an entire Universe. It was falling apart, and rather than risk having it bleed that instability over into other universes, Saturnyne had it sheered off from Marvel's Omniverse. Whatever's left of it still exists, but it's no longer connected to the rest of Marvel's dimensions. It's inaccessible.

Hate to contradict you, but it is destroyed. We saw it post destruction, and it was an empty void. And it was Mandragon, Saturnyne's trial judge, prosecutor and successor, who destroyed it.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

We've got to take it with a pinch of salt that making Brian the Guardian was Merlyn's plan - or at least, that it was his endgame. Anything they tell Brian, anything Mastermind (whose origins, after all, are tied to Otherworld too) tolds Brian, anything the hologram of his father (if it was really his father) told Brian, has to be taken with the usual Merlyn-sized pinch of salt. And the mini-series that ended with Brian in the role had its own share of continuity flubs - like Captain UK relating the wrong background for the Warpies, when she should be very aware of the correct one.

It could all be smoke an mirrors I suppose. Which also helps to explain away a number inconsistencies over the years. I would love to see somebody write a more definite history, some day. Maybe in the form of some kind of 'Sir James Braddock: Captain Britain' kind of story, which might iron out a few of the kinks.

Somehow, though, I don't see it being a sales winner... :rolleyes:

Again, got to query this, because we know of another Captain Britain who successfully wielded both. As with the story where we are expected to believe that Albion was the first Corpsman to take the Sword, and hence be rejected by Merlyn and Roma, there's something iffy about the reactions of Merlyn and Roma because we know others took the Sword and weren't rejected.

It was a very weird origin story, wasn't it? Merlyn appears in his older form, much more in line with that which he wore during Cap's pre-Davis costume stories. Which would perhaps suggest that Albion's flashback might be from that kind of time. Apart from Roma being dressed as she was in the Davis years. More evidence that both regularly change their forms to suit themselves, maybe.

But we had already seen the Sword lifted by another in Cap's very first issue. We'd seen Kelsey take the Sword in Avengers. And in fact the way Claremont had been seeding that story earlier on had Brian questioning the possibility of a whole Corps of Sword choosing Captains being out there - which is obviously not what we saw in the end.

So much of that story arc in particular was inconsistent, even with itself in places. So yes. A pinch of salt is probably the sanest option to take.

I'd agree, but seekquaze made a good point about the Celtic gods, which would also apply for the Pendragons of other realities. They do have counterparts in other realities, so how come we only see the 616 versions in Otherworld? I guess there's some funky pandimensional physics going on. One to ponder.

Absolutely. Does make me wonder if the Celtic Gods we see in Marvel might not be part of something else, and not Otherworld.

If Roma's memories are intact, in theory making a new body shouldn't be a big deal. So the question becomes, why would Roma want Sage to have access to her memories? Roma was involved in placing Psylocke on the Exiles; did she know the personalities running the Crystal Palace were about to end their tenure? Was she maneuvering a suitable replacement into position? And did she then, during Merlyn's attack, make a last minute decision that Sage would be a better option for this role than Psylocke?

So many questions, yes? I really was hoping that Claremont would clarify a few of those by the end of New eXiles. Sadly not. If anything it's just raised a few more!

Lady, not mistress. No hanky panky going on between Roma and the sky, thank you.

Yes. That would be a very... abstract union. My mistake.

Elizabeth. Elisabeth is a spelling error that seemingly started with the US reprints of Captain Britain in X-Men Archives, where some, but not all, of the times her name was given got relettered incorrectly.

Crap. Yes it is. That was my typo.

Hate to contradict you, but it is destroyed. We saw it post destruction, and it was an empty void. And it was Mandragon, Saturnyne's trial judge, prosecutor and successor, who destroyed it.

Ah yes. How the hell did I manage to forget Mandragon. It's about time I re-read that period. Luckily I have an omnibus to get through...

[widdershins]

Excalibur's Lighthouse existed in all realities. While dimensional barriers where thinner than usual, it didn't mean that all the inhabitants of the Lighthouse across the various realities existed in the same space and the same moment. It's probably the same with otherworld. You probably only ever see its intersection with the reality you come from.

[jarrod]

Is there any established relationship between the Starlight Citadel on Otherworld, the Crystal Palace in Exiles and the Crystal City inside the M'Krann Crystal? There seem to be some strange similarities between all 3 (visual, nexus of realities, infinite space) and some neat connections between some of their narrative inhabitants (Merlyn & Phoenix, Roma & Sage, the Braddocks, etc).

[Expletive Deleted]

Is there any established relationship between the Starlight Citadel on Otherworld, the Crystal Palace in Exiles and the Crystal City inside the M'Krann Crystal? There seem to be some strange similarities between all 3 (visual, nexus of realities, infinite space) and some neat connections between some of their narrative inhabitants (Merlyn & Phoenix, Roma & Sage, the Braddocks, etc).

Everybody's just riffing on the same ideas, although I'm sure someone will retcon in a connection eventually.

The X-Men titles really go overboard with this kind of stuff, don't they? Their cosmic plot devices can't be important, they have to be multiversally one-of-a-kind IMPORTANT. I'm half convinced the MU's cosmology would be better off (or at least more coherent) if we could ignore some of what comes out of the X-Office.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Everybody's just riffing on the same ideas, although I'm sure someone will retcon in a connection eventually.

The X-Men titles really go overboard with this kind of stuff, don't they? Their cosmic plot devices can't be important, they have to be multiversally one-of-a-kind IMPORTANT. I'm half convinced the MU's cosmology would be better off (or at least more coherent) if we could ignore some of what comes out of the X-Office.

To be fair I've never really considered either eXiles or Captain Britain to be part of the X-Men.

[Loki]

I could be wrong, as I've only read it once, but didn't it have a reveal at the end of Excalibur Vol2 that Kang was actually somehow involved in Brian becoming the ruler of otherworld?

He was behind Mastermind going bad again, and then leading the Warpie army against Otherworld, and he didn't seem displeased with Brian ascending the throne. Presumably he either wanted Brian on the throne as part of his greater plan, or at least saw Brian as a lesser opponent to deal with for the next gambit. Which of course makes me wonder if Brian being crowned wasn't a ruse to draw Kang out - Merlyn faked his own death to make Necrom believe it was safe to emerge from hiding, and the subsequent destruction of Merlyn's tower rang very false if you looked at it closely. Merlyn winds Captain Britain up to get him enraged at being manipulated, then later boasts how he has manipulated Brian and Excalibur to their faces and how he's going to use the tower now for his own ends, at the one and only point in time when Brian has been energised with enough power to destroy the tower? Merlyn, who normally stays in the shadows, comes out to boast his plans, when if he'd simply stayed hidden or even waited a day before doing his boasting, Brian's extra power would have dissipated and he wouldn't have been able to do anything about those plans. Me, I wonder if he didn't want the tower destroyed, and want to make a public show of having lost much of his power - encouraging another enemy think the time was ripe to move? And if that's the case, was a public split with Roma, and the crowning of an inexperienced monarch, simply another step in making Otherworld look more vulnerable than it really was?

Excalibur's Lighthouse existed in all realities. While dimensional barriers where thinner than usual, it didn't mean that all the inhabitants of the Lighthouse across the various realities existed in the same space and the same moment. It's probably the same with otherworld. You probably only ever see its intersection with the reality you come from.

Quite probably - with Merlyn and Roma presumably able to see more "facets" thanks to their gestalt existence.

Is there any established relationship between the Starlight Citadel on Otherworld, the Crystal Palace in Exiles and the Crystal City inside the M'Krann Crystal? There seem to be some strange similarities between all 3 (visual, nexus of realities, infinite space) and some neat connections between some of their narrative inhabitants (Merlyn & Phoenix, Roma & Sage, the Braddocks, etc).

No confirmed relationship, though it wouldn't be suprising to find there was some kind of link.

[widdershins]

Is there any established relationship between the Starlight Citadel on Otherworld, the Crystal Palace in Exiles and the Crystal City inside the M'Krann Crystal? There seem to be some strange similarities between all 3 (visual, nexus of realities, infinite space) and some neat connections between some of their narrative inhabitants (Merlyn & Phoenix, Roma & Sage, the Braddocks, etc).

Holocaust sensed that the energy frequency of the Tallus was identical to the one he knew from the M'Kraan, and the Exiles used the M'Kraan to arrive to the Crystal Palace. The Crystal Palace may be inside the M'Kraan, linked to it, or maybe they are both part of the same Pandimensional structure, but some kind of connection was there from the start. Latest depictions seem also to have increased the visual similarities.
I remember when Jean was in the White Hot Room at the end of Here Comes Tomorrow one of the floating structures looked exactly like the Starlight Citadel.

I'm half convinced the MU's cosmology would be better off (or at least more coherent) if we could ignore some of what comes out of the X-Office.

The MU cosmology consistently ignores what comes out of the X-Office or from Captain Britain's mythos. The only exception are the Sh'iar.