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  1. #1876
    Anarchist Cat Owner pryde15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yanapryde View Post
    This.
    The Linguist should be boning Pryde.
    Not the Popsicle.
    They'd be such a power couple.

  2. #1877
    Ain't no Snowflake yanapryde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pryde15 View Post
    They'd be such a power couple.
    Also? HUGE blow to Bobby's ego, being left for Doug.
    Big PLUS!
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  3. #1878
    Anarchist Cat Owner pryde15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yanapryde View Post
    Also? HUGE blow to Bobby's ego, being left for Doug.
    Big PLUS!
    Anything that destroys Iceman's character is a great bonus for me.

  4. #1879

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterwind View Post
    I disagree that he'd take the JGS over Cyke's mission because that is the exact opposite of what he did in Schism. I don't think he(or anyone not introduced as such) is better characterized as a scholar/professor because that's very boring. Cyclops' trusted Doug enough to put mutantkind's future in his hands, and defended him when Emma tried to get him kicked off the team. And however Magneto or Illyana feels about him is irrelevant.

    And really I would to see the pro-mutants stick together. I would have loved to see Dr Nemsis and Dani Moonstar in the new Uncanny but they're tied up in other books. Doug is free and his powerset will always be a good fix. Biasedly speaking next to Magik he is my favorite New mutants, and I think Bendis could characterize him really well.
    But he is better characterized as a scholar/professor. He has no discernible physical capabilities (aside from that brief 'I can read violence' in Wells' run, the 'I can read magic' from DnA's run, and Douglock). He ought to be the guy that makes everything tick, that devises the plans and offers much needed intel. That's where his niche is and where it ought to be. Besides - in House of M, he was a professor at that school for mutant leaders along with Karma. And House of M was the manifestation of (almost!) everyone's wishes.

    Cypher never chose Scott over Wolverine - Dani did. And she didn't even choose Scott. She decided to take the New Mutants to San Francisco in defiance of the two sides of Schism, arguing that they were both isolationist stances that would do no good for mutantkind in the long run. Sure, SHE had the NM more closely affiliated with Scott's Utopia - but obviously she was close enough with the JGS to invite everyone from there to a barbeque in the last issue of the run. Emphasis on SHE, because she was the one who made all the decisions while the other kids just followed her blindly.

    Also, you don't think the JGS is pro-mutant as well? You can maybe get away with saying Wolverine and Beast don't give a damn about mutants now, considering how little he's done for mutants as part of the Avengers and how they sided with the Avengers in AvX, but you'll never, ever get to claim characters like Kitty Pryde aren't pro-mutant. Besides, with the True-Friend arc, he's scared crapless of becoming militant and dictator-like, which some would argue Scott is at the moment. So, some could feasibly argue being around Scott would be the last thing on his list of wants.

    So...'kay. If you want him in Uncanny just because he's one of your faves, I can respect that. Just so long as we establish that there really isn't any in character basis/precedent/logic for him to do so.
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  5. #1880
    Veteran Member JaggedFel's Avatar
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    yeah doug should be behind a computer screen calling shots from base camp not running through missions with bs dues ex machina power ups. his combat reading was pushing it but when we get to I can read the language of cities and crap it crosses the line
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  6. #1881
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    Quote Originally Posted by murdershewrote View Post
    But he is better characterized as a scholar/professor. He has no discernible physical capabilities (aside from that brief 'I can read violence' in Wells' run, the 'I can read magic' from DnA's run, and Douglock). He ought to be the guy that makes everything tick, that devises the plans and offers much needed intel. That's where his niche is and where it ought to be. Besides - in House of M, he was a professor at that school for mutant leaders along with Karma. And House of M was the manifestation of (almost!) everyone's wishes.

    Cypher never chose Scott over Wolverine - Dani did. And she didn't even choose Scott. She decided to take the New Mutants to San Francisco in defiance of the two sides of Schism, arguing that they were both isolationist stances that would do no good for mutantkind in the long run. Sure, SHE had the NM more closely affiliated with Scott's Utopia - but obviously she was close enough with the JGS to invite everyone from there to a barbeque in the last issue of the run. Emphasis on SHE, because she was the one who made all the decisions while the other kids just followed her blindly.

    Also, you don't think the JGS is pro-mutant as well? You can maybe get away with saying Wolverine and Beast don't give a damn about mutants now, considering how little he's done for mutants as part of the Avengers and how they sided with the Avengers in AvX, but you'll never, ever get to claim characters like Kitty Pryde aren't pro-mutant. Besides, with the True-Friend arc, he's scared crapless of becoming militant and dictator-like, which some would argue Scott is at the moment. So, some could feasibly argue being around Scott would be the last thing on his list of wants.

    So...'kay. If you want him in Uncanny just because he's one of your faves, I can respect that. Just so long as we establish that there really isn't any in character basis/precedent/logic for him to do so.
    I think you're missing the point. No one is better charactertized as a professor/scholar because it is an extremely boring concept except for characters like Beast and Mr. Fantastic. because they were introduced are as iconic as such. Turning characters into professors is bad, the most obvious example being Wolverine. Doug was incredible in Necrosha, nearly defeating the entire New Mutant's team, reading movement like the Sharingan is an incredible battle ability, and very importantly it's unique.

    Cypher did choose Cyclops. Those who choose Wolverine(Canonball and Karma) went to the JGS, you may need to reread some of the issues again. Dani wasn't defying Scott, somehow you seem to forget that even after she left the team was still taking orders from Cyclops and were close enough to be on the Island when the Avengers attacked. The barbeque is irrelevant, the only ones who is actually bitter over the Schism is Wolverine. Like Cyclops said, it wasn't a fight. It's a disagreement, there is no reason why everyone wouldn't be friends.

    That was a typo, I meant to say pro-Utopia. I'm not saying those at the JGS aren't pro-mutant but imo they're less so than those at Utopia and they have a very pack-like mentality. Satisfied with taking care of those at the school while mutants else where suffer. Those who would argue that Scott is militant and dictator like are those who went to the JGS. He is was terrified simply because he had become a madman who was trying to kill his friends.

    Cypher isn't one of my faves. I want him in Uncanny because it's a good for him. You're the one who has mentioned you don't want him in Uncanny because you hate him. Cypher is actually one of the few mutants still in limbo that would make sense to be on the team at the moment.

  7. #1882
    Veteran Member JaggedFel's Avatar
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    the way he won was dumb seriously his movement reading with a normal enough human body should not require any grand effort to overcome from anyone with AOE attack. Sasuke of course is effective because he has Superhuman stats and a broad range of attacks that are better then punching someone.

    He followed Dani we never got to see why he was team scott.
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  8. #1883

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterwind View Post
    I think you're missing the point. No one is better charactertized as a professor/scholar because it is an extremely boring concept except for characters like Beast and Mr. Fantastic. because they were introduced are as iconic as such. Turning characters into professors is bad, the most obvious example being Wolverine. Doug was incredible in Necrosha, nearly defeating the entire New Mutant's team, reading movement like the Sharingan is an incredible battle ability, and very importantly it's unique.

    Cypher did choose Cyclops. Those who choose Wolverine(Canonball and Karma) went to the JGS, you may need to reread some of the issues again. Dani wasn't defying Scott, somehow you seem to forget that even after she left the team was still taking orders from Cyclops and were close enough to be on the Island when the Avengers attacked. The barbeque is irrelevant, the only ones who is actually bitter over the Schism is Wolverine. Like Cyclops said, it wasn't a fight. It's a disagreement, there is no reason why everyone wouldn't be friends.

    That was a typo, I meant to say pro-Utopia. I'm not saying those at the JGS aren't pro-mutant but imo they're less so than those at Utopia and they have a very pack-like mentality. Satisfied with taking care of those at the school while mutants else where suffer. Those who would argue that Scott is militant and dictator like are those who went to the JGS. He is was terrified simply because he had become a madman who was trying to kill his friends.

    Cypher isn't one of my faves. I want him in Uncanny because it's a good for him. You're the one who has mentioned you don't want him in Uncanny because you hate him. Cypher is actually one of the few mutants still in limbo that would make sense to be on the team at the moment.
    Uhm. Xavier's one of the most fascinating and layered characters in MU, and he's been classified as a professor all his life? Emma Frost? The stint during which Magneto was a professor was perhaps one of my absolute favorite iterations of him? It's not even close to a boring concept if executed properly, sorry. Turning characters like Wolverine into teachers is bad because it's basically contrary to who the character is supposed to be (a loner, animalistic, hairy ball of death and destruction). Turning characters like Cypher (and Karma) into teachers is not only a natural progression of the character, but it grants them a definitive role in X-mythos and a better chance of showing up and being important in books not specifically dedicated to them.

    lol. Bro, clearly you need to re-read the issues. Dani very clearly states to Gus (the psychiatrist she brings to interview the team) that she disagrees with both Scott and Wolverine, which is why she and the New Mutants remaining with her move into San Francisco and why she wanted them to live among humans and as close to humans as possible (aka, not using Bobby's trust fund fortune, getting jobs, being normal etc). And yes, she took orders from Scott, which I acknowledged when I said she closely affiliated with Utopia. BUT she maintained autonomy from him - an example being she sent Blink to JGS instead of Utopia when they 'rescued' her. Cypher doesn't specifically choose to stay with Scott, he spent the issue arguing binary with Warlock - we never get any insight to his emotions on the subject. At least with Amara, Bobby, and Nate we hear them discussing the two possibilities, trying to decide what to do between themselves.

    And don't give me that BS about his power upgrade in 'reading combat' as a way to try and argue that he is powerful enough to join the Extinction team. It was so 'great' the ability was never referenced/used again despite DnA's run LARGELY revolving around Doug. Personally, I thought it was an awesome and natural extension of his power at the time, but now I hate it because it allowed DnA to take the idea of expanding his omnilinguism and destroy it by having Doug deus ex machina in every arc following. Which, by the by, almost single-handedly destroyed the New Mutants franchise, which had started out in good standing under Wells' pen. I didn't always hate Doug - but this new iteration, with no limits on his 'reading'? He needs to die again ASAP and restore honor to the memory of his teenage self.

    Anyway, I didn't post all this to bag on Cypher - but my point is that it would make zero canonical sense for him to join the Extinction Team. In fact, it would actively work AGAINST his prior characterization, seeing as he's been shown to have a disposition for teaching in crossovers, has very strong ties to Kitty and Karma (and Amara, depending on whether she's remaining at JGS or not), and an aversion to the highly militant, borderline violent, renegade lifestyle of the E Team. Not to mention that he doesn't have anyone he's particularly close to on that side of the divide. So...I don't know, but it's more like you want him in Uncanny because you like him and would like to see him there, not that it would make sense for him to go there.
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  9. #1884
    Senior Member Siryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murdershewrote View Post
    And don't give me that BS about his power upgrade in 'reading combat' as a way to try and argue that he is powerful enough to join the Extinction team. It was so 'great' the ability was never referenced/used again despite DnA's run LARGELY revolving around Doug. Personally, I thought it was an awesome and natural extension of his power at the time, but now I hate it because it allowed DnA to take the idea of expanding his omnilinguism and destroy it by having Doug deus ex machina in every arc following. Which, by the by, almost single-handedly destroyed the New Mutants franchise, which had started out in good standing under Wells' pen. I didn't always hate Doug - but this new iteration, with no limits on his 'reading'? He needs to die again ASAP and restore honor to the memory of his teenage self.
    I totally agree with this. Personally, I love Doug, but I think the "I can read graffiti/cupcakes/what-the-hell-ever" has basically destroyed his character. I don't want him to die again, I just want him to be able to read languages and computers. That's it.

    My favorite Cypher was Mike Carey's interpretation of him during Second Coming, where he went on the suicide mission with X-Force. As such, I can kind of see Winterwind's desire for Doug to be on the E-team. He wouldn't fit there, but he has worked on teams before where I didn't think he'd fit at all (i.e. X-Force), and I loved it. Somehow, it worked. I don't know how it worked, but it did.

    Still, I think I'd most love to see him rekindle his relationship with Kitty. She always chooses to date the dumb guys, and I think she needs to go after someone that's on the same intellectual level as her.

  10. #1885
    Mugga, please. xhx23x's Avatar
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    I can't believe there's people out there who actually like I can read all Doug aside from that one poster who doesn't like anything to ever change ever.

    And yeah, I'm going to agree that it makes the most sense character and story wise to keep Doug at the school. Though I hope they don't pull him out any time soon, I really need some time to wash the horribleness he pulled in the last half of the New Mutant's volume out of my system. Warlock may be a joke most of the time, but he's still ten times more tolerable than what Ramsey became.

    Kitty Pryde is the only way the character can start to redeem himself.

    I would only support the idea of him with the Uncanny team if Magik had him tied up in Limbo as a part of a torture/sex game in her off time though.

  11. #1886
    Anarchist Cat Owner pryde15's Avatar
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    I like Doug's ability to read "body language" or whatever to an extent but it really is a double-edged sword. Sure, it makes him more viable for missions and y'know fighting evil or whatever but it also makes him too powerful for any team situation.

    Like being able to read magic? That is ridiculous and the person who came up with it should probably consider ending their career now.

  12. #1887
    Mugga, please. xhx23x's Avatar
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    The ability of reading body language should've been limited to just that. Not upgraded to combat response. Like telling when people are lying or reading emotions. like that creepy thing he did when he was just brought back where he read Xavier and his former teammates, revealing the truth behind their encounter.

    I'll never understand why they thought they needed Doug to be on the field, not everyone in the team has to fight the fight. And Doug was originally likable because he had to make himself useful in other ways. Not cause he can read people to death.

  13. #1888

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    Quote Originally Posted by xhx23x View Post
    The ability of reading body language should've been limited to just that. Not upgraded to combat response. Like telling when people are lying or reading emotions. like that creepy thing he did when he was just brought back where he read Xavier and his former teammates, revealing the truth behind their encounter.

    I'll never understand why they thought they needed Doug to be on the field, not everyone in the team has to fight the fight. And Doug was originally likable because he had to make himself useful in other ways. Not cause he can read people to death.
    Definitely! I'm not going to lie, I was totally geeking out when I first read vol 3 and saw Cypher take down the entire team, in the good way. Honestly, the way Wells' described it made sense. Since the New Mutants attacks were so heavily rehearsed/choreographed, and since Doug knew these kids, knew their personalities and their roles within the team, it made sense for him to be able to anticipate their movements and kind of knock them up a bit. Kind of like how Danger was used in Whedon's Astonishing.

    But really Doug should never be used as a brawler unless times are desperate and he goes Douglock. And that's a good thing, as it gives him a unique role to play on the squad. He's the brains of the operation, imo, and should be used as such and in a way that takes advantage of it.

    Honestly I think at the end DnA were just trolling us, though. I mean...when he started to read reality? In front of Nate "I hop dimensions for fun" Grey? And he totally read his evil self out of existence, didn't he? They totally stopped caring after the Date with the Devil issue.
    I wish I could go back in time and enjoy Doug again. He was never one of my favorites, but he was relatable back when he was a slightly whiny kid, frustrated with himself for not being able to fight with his friends. I really felt for him, rooted for him even...but at the same time idk he was still a jerk to Roulette and Tarot and almost killed Amara so idgaf he can die for all I care. Those are three of my favorite chicks, and he cannot get away with that treachery.
    Last edited by murdershewrote; 01-01-2013 at 11:24 PM.
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  14. #1889
    Senior Member 244's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .AČ View Post
    Warlock is like an imaginary friend that never left. It's embarrassing for them to still hang out with him.
    Now that's uncalled for.

  15. #1890
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    Has anyone else been reading Avengers? Personally, I've found it to be a mostly dull ride thus far, but Bobby had a hilarious moment of flirtation with the new Smasher in issue #3. I liked last week's #5 a lot, but Hickman had Sam sounding like Tony Stark's incompetent intern, which irked me. Development is what we need, not regression. Regardless, both of them feature in the solicitation for #11 with some interesting costume adjustments.

    AVENGERS #11
    JONATHAN HICKMAN (W) • MIKE DEODATO (A)
    COVER BY DUSTIN WEAVER
    “WAKE THE DRAGON”
    • As Shang-Chi battles an ancient enemy, the Avengers hang out in Hong Kong’s swankiest casino.
    • Captain Marvel, Black Widow and Spider-Woman find out it doesn’t pay to gamble in the spy business.
    • Cannonball and Sunspot play craps with a bunch of AIM Agents. AND WIN! 32 PGS./Rated T …$3.99




    Quote Originally Posted by 244 View Post
    Now that's uncalled for.
    Sorry! I just think his presence makes the entire team feel a little dated.
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