Le Diable Blanc: Amour et Appréciation de Gambit

**Nite-Wing** · 07-12-2012, 10:53 AM

Its not wrong to want Gambit to relavent to the MU. I mean you want to think that he's always going to be one of those characters that's never going to drop off the map and the only way he's going to get to that status is if he forms his own niche in the MU.
This whole thief thing could turn into something where he's the new less villainous Hood where he becomes the go to contact in the criminal underworld.

You as a fan want to see him have something that's his.
I mean look at Punisher I can honestly say he's the only MU hero who goes out and kills criminals. He's the only Mu character who is consistently getting Max titles.
I'd love to see Gambit at that plateau where's he's always going to be having a story told by some writer.

Can Asmus start that? Sure but people have to be behind him and the fans have to know its all going somewhere.

**f4faith** · 07-12-2012, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Nite-Wing

I mean look at Punisher I can honestly say he's the only MU hero who goes out and kills criminals.

I'm not trying to be snarky but does Punisher still have a book? I really never noticed. And isn't killing criminal what X-Force is all about and some extent Secret Avengers.

Not that I don't get your point. At least with Gambit it's an area that you are right has not been explored too much in terms of being source of underworld information for different hero team efforts.

**remydat** · 07-12-2012, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Moonshine

In full? We are discussing snippets of ideas much like the promotions. Its the same as discussing a book where even half of that is open to interpretation. You don't know my full opinion any more than I know yours. Anymore than we know what everyone at Marvel thinks.

On a given topic that we choose to debate I can know your opinion because you can state it in the thread. We can't know the full details of anything in a book that hasn't come out yet so anything we say regarding it is speculation. I don't need to speculate about your opinion. I can just ask you what it is and then decide whether I agree or not based on what you have posted.

Originally Posted by Moonshine

Most of them don't die because they actually do plan and work at it all the time. There is a difference between people who enjoy risk and a death wish. Yes something bad can happen, but its not happening every time or even every other time. What I liked about Gambit when he first showed up in the X-books, he was smart. He beat Wolverine because he was smart and planned ahead. There is risk but it was controlled risk. Think skydiving, Yes you can die. Something can go wrong but if it went wrong EVERY TIME, you'd alreadly have been dead long before now. That control panel didn't just suddenly start running a distracting program. He beat the fake Xavier in space because he cased the joint when no one was looking. Gambit thought ahead when they got into trouble in Genosha and was coming up with a plan to escape by getting a lock pick long before it was needed. Sure it was a plan on the fly to some extent but it was also not just a last minute rabbit out of a hat thing either. You could go back and see where Gambit was stacking the deck in his possible favor when her perceived an existing or on-coming problem. That is not somewho who's just taking risk to take risk. There are people like that and they do usually end up killing themselves stupidly.

And where is there any evidence that is not exactly what is going to happen here? In any of those scenarios Gambit got in trouble and got out of it. The solicit specifically says he will use his cunning to get out of it so I have seen nothing to suggest it is any different than those situations you describe. Gambit gets into shit because he likes the thrill. He is simply good enough to get out of it relatively unscathed most of the time.

Originally Posted by Moonshine

I find Batman the character unlikeable. He's too smug and DC way too many times over rates him, but why I think the premise of Batman is so interesting to more people than say Superman is the fact that while Superman is no dummy, Batman gets buy mostly on being smart, planning and being prepared. The detective part of him, not because he's inheriently invincible. One of the reasons I don't think Longhot ever caught on was the fact his power and even his supposed attraction to women was basically "luck". People in general are not impressed by those who get by on just being lucky. Think Cyclop's leadship half the time. While Marvel tells us he's smart and has great tactics, too much of the time, he's really just lucky. Which doesn't make me think he's smart but just blessed. Same with his relationships. I have no frigging idea why Emma fell in love with the looser she was using at the time Morrison was writing them unless we are to believe Emma likes being in relationship where she's controlling the mess of her partner. The problem with that is the minute Scott stopped being written as an emotional mess, then Emma should have lost interest in him. So I don't mind when things blow up in Gambit's face now and then but when it happens all the time, it gets unreadable to me. It's why I don't like Daredevil. The character is a freaking mess. He continually is his own worst ememy and is as I like to call a lucky idiot. I can't stand him. I don't want Gambit to be him..?

A magician is not lucky. He does death defying tricks and survives because he has a plan. Further if that plan goes to shit he has the ability to think on the fly. Think Houdini. He wasn't lucky. He was just that good. I think we both agree that Gambit should be cunning, he should be able to think on the fly but the reality still is that he will get into trouble because he will take risks that no one else will. He will win the majority of the time but it doesn't change the fact that they are risks. Again, nothing in what Ausmus has said about the project says otherwise to me. Here is the thing, even if Gambit knew whatever he steals was cursed, I still think he would have stole it because he simply likes the risk involved.

Originally Posted by Moonshine

Telling people they act like people with with low self-esteem and low self-worth is basically saying that they are that.

Low self-esteem is not a defining characteristic of being a child or childish. Children until they become conditioned/socialised by going to school are generally more prone to being self-centered and over-confident. Anyone can have it and it does not make them childish, it makes them human.

Originally Posted by Moonshine

How is discussing what one thinks about a preview or what one would like to see in the book with OTHER fans (not Marvel) have anything to do with vieing for Marvel's attention? Where is Marvel here? I don't come here thinking Marvel gives a rat's behind what is said here and if they do, I suspect its mostly filtered. I don't go to their website. I don't post on their twitter account or the writers accounts. Heck i don't think I or most fans on discussion boards ever even ask questions during the "interviews" on the site. If Marvel comes here its because they are interested not because most who post here asked them to. I can think they are stupid for some things or smart for others and that they ignore fan interests over their own at times but they don't get my money unless they give me something I am interested in. Some of it might be mediocre when I get it and I'll complain and likely not buy the next one but supporting Gambit as far as Marvel is concerned is only really done with money. As you say, comics is an idea area, the real money is in the movies and off-shoots. Marvel promotes the Avengers more because they have more investment in those movies. That still doesn't make them smart to ignore balanced stories because its just not good for the "idea development" area becasue the ideas still have to be there to pull from.

That's totally different from as a fan to other fans wanting Gambit to be promoted or pushed in team books I also want to read for other characters. It may not happen and I certainly don't think talking about it here or on other boards is going to make it happen but its a discussion board. I come here to see what people think and to discuss those thoughts not to beg or vie Marvel for anything. If someone just wants a Gambit book only then hey they are getting their wish. I happy to get the book but honestly solo books are not my favorite. Gambit's will be the only solo book I likely will regularly buy. I'm still far more interested in Gambit on a team where he can show what he brings to that team than I am in him solo. That's just the fact. Hoping for that has nothing to do with Marvel and everything to do with what I want to read the character in.

If I am a geek and I sit around with other geeks talking about how I wish the jocks would notice me then I am still vying for their attention despite not actually saying it directly to them. Again, this is an analogy but my point stands. It's like the serenity prayer "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference." I am done with worrying about his status in the X-men or the MU because I know Marvel and the editors clearly treat the dude like a second rate character. And my point was your comment gives the impression Gambit is only relevant if he's major in the X-men or the MU. That is akin to someone with low self-esteem feeling like they are only relevant if others say they are.

Originally Posted by Moonshine

Until the next writer comes along. You act like its going to be the same group of people with the same opinions forever and that they all have the same opinion. There is no way of knowing who at Marvel is willing to use the character and do it well until given the chance. That's one thing giving him a solo is good for and that's to put him out there for writers to consider again and possibly use.

This is my point. I said if the solo is a success the rest will take care of itself. I am just saying I don't want Gambit in the MU at this moment because I have no faith it will be for anything other than to be an extra or someone else's punching bag. If the winds shift then I will change my opinion but right now it hasn't. If the solo is a success then instead of us fans wishing/begging for Gambit to be in a team book, you will have writers wishing/begging for Gambit to be in their book.

**remydat** · 07-12-2012, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Nite-Wing

Its not wrong to want Gambit to relavent to the MU. I mean you want to think that he's always going to be one of those characters that's never going to drop off the map and the only way he's going to get to that status is if he forms his own niche in the MU.
This whole thief thing could turn into something where he's the new less villainous Hood where he becomes the go to contact in the criminal underworld.

You as a fan want to see him have something that's his.
I mean look at Punisher I can honestly say he's the only MU hero who goes out and kills criminals. He's the only Mu character who is consistently getting Max titles.
I'd love to see Gambit at that plateau where's he's always going to be having a story told by some writer.

Can Asmus start that? Sure but people have to be behind him and the fans have to know its all going somewhere.

I am not suggesting it is wrong. I am suggesting right now it is pointless because Marvel and the editors treat the character like he's second rate. Anything he appears in not written by Ausmus and Liu is likely to treat him as such so why would I want to subject him to that bull. So rather than lament or wish for it right now, it's more practical to put my hopes into this solo establishing Gambit as a solo star. If it does then guess what Gambit will became relevant to the MU because people will recognize he sells books.

**remydat** · 07-12-2012, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by f4faith

I'm not trying to be snarky but does Punisher still have a book? I really never noticed. And isn't killing criminal what X-Force is all about and some extent Secret Avengers.

Not that I don't get your point. At least with Gambit it's an area that you are right has not been explored too much in terms of being source of underworld information for different hero team efforts.

Difference with X-force though is they did to struggle with the morality of their actions. I have never read Punisher but I thought he more or less had no qualms about what he was doing.

**Moonshine** · 07-12-2012, 02:17 PM

I'm skipping the rest because you always have the last word so I'm trying to keep it short so you can end it.

Originally Posted by remydat

Gambit gets into shit because he likes the thrill. He is simply good enough to get out of it relatively unscathed most of the time.

Actually Gambit got into most of that shit because he was helping out others (Storm, I can't remember quite the person evil Xavier was trying to killa at the moment, the X-Men) the not just for the thrill.

If I am a geek and I sit around with other geeks talking about how I wish the jocks would notice me then I am still vying for their attention despite not actually saying it directly to them.

You are not vying for anything just talking to those who see it a similar way. The closer analogy is Gambit's a dancer, a good one, and I as a spectator know as I can see it in other dances he's done in smaller venues but he's not being used hardly at all because the producer is too interested in his own family who while good aren't any better and some worse or so it seems to a decent number of the audience. I as the viewer I am commenting to others who are long time attendees that agree that Gambit should be used at least in a better capacity because I would find the show better if he was. Its not like we think its going to change or we are jumping up and down in the audience yelling at the producer. Until someone breaks a leg or there is a new director even with the old producer it is not likely to change, but its disminishes the show for some and when discussing the show/dancers, it comes up.

And my point was your comment gives the impression Gambit is only relevant if he's major in the X-men or the MU. That is akin to someone with low self-esteem feeling like they are only relevant if others say they are.

No he's already relevant as far as his fans are concerned. But he'lll get more exposure and possible interest to other readers who might never have cared or already have a negative view from previous uses. If he's used well in a few of the big selling books, it only helps.

If the solo is a success then instead of us fans wishing/begging for Gambit to be in a team book, you will have writers wishing/begging for Gambit to be in their book.

It doesn't even have to be a success (or a long term one) was the point. All its got to do is spark some interest in how Gambit can be a useful character not just a solo one (something with his powers, his skills something). That's all I've been trying to say.

As an aside, in all honesty, I don't think Rogue's been "relevant" as far as doing anything productive or useful since X-Men became Legacy since its been mostly irrelevant to what was driving the MU or mutant world stories. The only thing that it helped her was keeping her on the map. Only since joining the AvsX has her doing anything significant despite all her "exposure". Being on Uncanny Avengers and not the only focus may actually help her.

**Moonshine** · 07-12-2012, 07:26 PM

Unrelated post.

Asmus briefly mentions the Gambit series in the the CBR coverage of Marvel's next big thing panel at comic con.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=39727

Not too much new information just at lot of jokes about how sexy Gambit is.

**Starleafgirl** · 07-12-2012, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by Moonshine

Unrelated post.

Asmus briefly mentions the Gambit series in the the CBR coverage of Marvel's next big thing panel at comic con.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=39727

Not too much new information just at lot of jokes about how sexy Gambit is.

Personally, I think every series needs a Gambit shower scene, even the titles he's not currently appearing in.

**Juggs** · 07-12-2012, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by Starleafgirl

Personally, I think every series needs a Gambit shower scene, even the titles he's not currently appearing in.

Hrmm i wonder how that would go, but i agree with you also and also here's a link or maybe another Gambit pic this time a study by Clay Mann on the X-Boards. This i hope we see Gambit down hanging at the bayous.