Young Avengers Appreciation

[Kieran_Frost]

Right frost because wiccan fans don't have a bias bone in their bodies.

I hate to point out the obvious... but... how does me being a Wiccan fan alter the 15+ quotes NOT by me, saying it's a good comic? I'm sure some of those I quoted AREN'T Wiccan fans; and they still liked it.

[Kieran_Frost]

LOL, I applaud your passion and the plug (although you come off a bit bias ;P). I'll see if it's on Marvel's Digital Comics Unlimited-thingie, which I need to remember I have and use.

I didn't quote myself, I quoted other people! I admit I loved it (and yes, part of that is down to Wiccan being centre stage) but it's a great read, in general. You have Avengers vs. X-men (but... you know... DONE WELL!!!). You have Magneto vs. Doom, repairing/correcting numerous Bendis plot-mess-ups... and add to that the art is gorgeous (this is a near universal truth). It's by the team who created the Young Avengers in the first place (surely anyone who is a fan of any of these characters would agree the creator knows how to write his own creations). I am biased... but I quoted other people, to prove it's not just my opinion. I promise you this "it was reportedly terrible"... I have no idea where you got that from, the reviews by everyone who read it on this very board do not support that statement.

Also yay, another NYCer!

I refuse to acknowledge our Big Apple Brotherhood until you read Avengers: Children's Crusade

[Kevinroc]

Right frost because wiccan fans don't have a bias bone in their bodies.

I'm glad it sounds like Gillen is giving Teddy something to do. In CC, he seemed to be totally defined as "Billy's boyfriend." It's easy to forget he has story potential beyond that going by CC.

(It feels weird that the biggest exploration of the old group's dynamic was in Fraction's Hawkeye spotlight issue of YA Presents.)

[Lady_Alternate]

The majority of problems with Children's Crusade pretty much all come down to the fact that Wiccan is Heinberg projecting himself into the story. Hence why the story is so focused on him, why there's an air of wish fulfilment about the whole story, why Teddy is a cardboard cut-out shoulder to cry on and hand to hold and why there's little time left over for progressing the stories of the other Young Avengers.

That said, it's still very much worth a read in trade format, because none of these problems are a total block to the story. It still does what it sets out to do, and it does it fairly well.

One fun thing to do is spot the pages where Cheung was either rushed or bored and doesn't put a great deal of effort into some of his background characters and faces. You'll giggle at times.

[JaggedFel]

I'm glad it sounds like Gillen is giving Teddy something to do. In CC, he seemed to be totally defined as "Billy's boyfriend." It's easy to forget he has story potential beyond that going by CC.

(It feels weird that the biggest exploration of the old group's dynamic was in Fraction's Hawkeye spotlight issue of YA Presents.)

Lol well in CC everyone could be described based on their relationship with Billy. Talk about False advertisement.

[yanapryde]

(It feels weird that the biggest exploration of the old group's dynamic was in Fraction's Hawkeye spotlight issue of YA Presents.)

i gotta commend Fraction on that.
Although each 'PRESENTS' was intended to focus on a particular character, Fraction managed to include everyone on however minor a level, sighting their interpersonal relationships both individual and as a whole group, while still showcasing Kate and her awesomeness.

[JaggedFel]

The majority of problems with Children's Crusade pretty much all come down to the fact that Wiccan is Heinberg projecting himself into the story. Hence why the story is so focused on him, why there's an air of wish fulfilment about the whole story, why Teddy is a cardboard cut-out shoulder to cry on and hand to hold and why there's little time left over for progressing the stories of the other Young Avengers.

That said, it's still very much worth a read in trade format, because none of these problems are a total block to the story. It still does what it sets out to do, and it does it fairly well.

One fun thing to do is spot the pages where Cheung was either rushed or bored and doesn't put a great deal of effort into some of his background characters and faces. You'll giggle at times.

Well Lady Alternate, I don't often agree with you but I have to applaud that analysis. Bravo.

[AnarCHris]

I didn't quote myself, I quoted other people! I admit I loved it (and yes, part of that is down to Wiccan being centre stage) but it's a great read, in general. You have Avengers vs. X-men (but... you know... DONE WELL!!!). You have Magneto vs. Doom, repairing/correcting numerous Bendis plot-mess-ups... and add to that the art is gorgeous (this is a near universal truth). It's by the team who created the Young Avengers in the first place (surely anyone who is a fan of any of these characters would agree the creator knows how to write his own creations). I am biased... but I quoted other people, to prove it's not just my opinion. I promise you this "it was reportedly terrible"... I have no idea where you got that from, the reviews by everyone who read it on this very board do not support that statement.



I refuse to acknowledge our Big Apple Brotherhood until you read Avengers: Children's Crusade

I have some Hardcore off-board Comics bro (including a couple who cosplay Billy and Teddy!) who've spoke negatively of CC, lining up with some of the critiques of CC. But I'll see what I can dig up on MDCU tonight and let you know what I think of it. THEN I CAN HATE ON IT AND YOU'LL HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE OUR B.A.B.H. ;P

The majority of problems with Children's Crusade pretty much all come down to the fact that Wiccan is Heinberg projecting himself into the story. Hence why the story is so focused on him, why there's an air of wish fulfilment about the whole story, why Teddy is a cardboard cut-out shoulder to cry on and hand to hold and why there's little time left over for progressing the stories of the other Young Avengers.

That said, it's still very much worth a read in trade format, because none of these problems are a total block to the story. It still does what it sets out to do, and it does it fairly well.

One fun thing to do is spot the pages where Cheung was either rushed or bored and doesn't put a great deal of effort into some of his background characters and faces. You'll giggle at times.

I like Cheung in general, but he does suffer from SAME FACE syndrome at times with unmasked characters. Either way, since I don't have to pay for it, I'll read it tonight and get back to you all soon.

::: Stares at Lady A's avatar, because reasons :::

[Twil]

Because of my lack of internet I have to read this thread in twenty page chunks, so I'm late to the Billy/Teddy playlist, but the music geek in me can't resist.

Billy - In the original YA series he was always wearing obscure band T-shirts, so I pin him down as a total indie-pop junkie. Though I feel the major reason why he is, is to mitigate his purely campy show tunes and cheesy top 40 love. So top albums of 2012 for Billy:
Ke$ha - Warrior
Lana Del Rey- Born To Die
Passion Pit-Gossamer

Teddy - The earrings? Hoodies all the time? Mellow enough to date a Maximoff? California Punk and Alt-Rock Top Albums of 2012
Imagine Dragons - Continued Silence
The Offsprings - Days Go By
Sublime with Rome - Yours Truly (Technically 2011)

Kate Bishop - A snarky ballbuster, I'm guessing female driven rock and hip hop as well as really fast tempo pop.
M.I.A. - Matangi (out in April of this year, but enough preview tracks to get the feel)
Calvin Harris - 18 months
Marina and the Diamonds - Electra Heart

Noh-Var - new to earth and rarely had time for music, he's probably sticking to the top 40's, and probably harboring a strong love for dubstep, as it sounds like something aliens would #### to. Top albums of 2012
Calvin Harris - 18 months (Thx Kate)
Zomboy - Game Time
Hot Chip - In Our Heads (don't know why, but I feel like he'd like this)

Loki - Same as Noh-var, just another off worlder trying to figure out this crazy thing you humans call 'Music' but I think he'd stick to Norwegian/Swedish bands that have a cross over to his American home audience. So:

Of Monsters and Men - My Head is an Animal (technically 2011, but really got its feet in 2012 also HIGHLY APPROPRIATE)
Frank Orange - Channel Orange
Various Artists - Hunger Games soundtrack: Songs from the 12th District and Beyond

anddddd Ms. America, very similar to Kate, as they have similar personalities
M.I.A. - Matangi
Galatic - Carnivale Electricos
Flobots - Circle in the Square

[NexusTenebrare]

Sheesh!
People were really surprised by CC being heavily focused on Wiccan? The story was about finding Wanda. Who should've been the main focus? Patriot?
This is what happens in stories. A focal character is chosen that is closely invested in what is going on.
I'm sure if a story comes up about Skrulls and Kree, there'll be a heavier focus on Teddy and Noh-Var.
I can't believe that anyone can be oblivious to this concept. It's how fiction works.

[Kevinroc]

Lol well in CC everyone could be described based on their relationship with Billy. Talk about False advertisement.

LOL. I certainly can't argue that point.

i gotta commend Fraction on that.
Although each 'PRESENTS' was intended to focus on a particular character, Fraction managed to include everyone on however minor a level, sighting their interpersonal relationships both individual and as a whole group, while still showcasing Kate and her awesomeness.

Several "PRESENTS" issues focused on some of the dynamics within the team. Off the top of my head, the Vision's issue focused a lot on Cassie and Cassie's spotlight issue also put some of its focus on Eli. But it was Kate's issue that really put the group's dynamics down in a way that let us really know the team and how they worked. (Plus it had art by Alan Davis. You can never go wrong with Alan Davis on art.)

[JaggedFel]

Sheesh!
People were really surprised by CC being heavily focused on Wiccan? The story was about finding Wanda. Who should've been the main focus? Patriot?
This is what happens in stories. A focal character is chosen that is closely invested in what is going on.
I'm sure if a story comes up about Skrulls and Kree, there'll be a heavier focus on Teddy and Noh-Var.
I can't believe that anyone can be oblivious to this concept. It's how fiction works.

Speed's contribution could have been summed up as raced Quicksilver. As for Patriot all focus on him was negative.

[yanapryde]

Fellow Enthusiasts,

What do the fans envision their favorite Young Avengers wearing when they're not Avenging etc?
I mean...I'm revisiting old stuff and the original run had them in some pretty basic, rather dull stuff.
non-descript tshirts and/or hoodies and Billy was once even caught in a jersey?? Hmm...

Thoughts? Visuals are, of course, welcome!

[Twil]

Okay, out of my system. Anyway, as to the current discussion, I'm in the camp that the delays of Children's Crusade made a mediocre comic a crap one. The mini-series had two main jobs: Re-introducing Wanda to set up the dynamics of XvA by showing the reactions to having Wanda back and explaining where the Young Avengers went. The focus ended up being to narrow, I think. I mean Speed got what? maybe a third of the lines Billy did? Where the reactions and character development should of been equal. As for the art, have you noticed that Cheung draws everyone with 12 year old faces when he's rushed?

[Songbird/Diamondback]

Fellow Enthusiasts,

What do the fans envision their favorite Young Avengers wearing when they're not Avenging etc?
I mean...I'm revisiting old stuff and the original run had them in some pretty basic, rather dull stuff.
non-descript tshirts and/or hoodies and Billy was once even caught in a jersey?? Hmm...

Thoughts? Visuals are, of course, welcome!

Sweat pants with the word juicy on their butts.