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  1. #1576
    Senior Member 1derer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PretenderNX01 View Post
    That's cool. I agree with him. It's nice to have one, somewhat long standing, happy gay male couple in comics.
    Shatterstar and Rictor! (Although Shatterstar isn't gay so much as omnisexual)
    Primary pulls: X-Factor, Hawkeye, Young Avengers, Avengers Arena, X-Men: Legacy, Uncanny X-Force, FF, Archer and Armstrong

  2. #1577
    Pure Hellcatnip Lady_Alternate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yanapryde View Post
    Much as I currently loathe about 84% of the Wolverine and the X-Men cast, I gotta say I'm very interested to see this group of Young Avengers interact with the students of the Jean Grey Institute (as stated in the gay times interview with Gillen).

    I'm, of course, hoping for more of a "We're awesome. Your school is garbage. The headmaster tried to kill Billy. Get out ASAP! Quentin's hair looks idiotic." feel to it.
    Okay, so they don't have to be mean, exactly, but it really wouldn't hurt to speak ill of that Canadian lunatic troll. Just sayin. Here's hoping MAC gives him a good super-kick to the groin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    AGREED!!! I want to see them talking to Rockslide and Anole; and Pixie. Oh GOD, I want MAC to voice an opinion on Pixie. Mwwwhahaha! And yeah... Wolverine, probably the most violent Marvel "hero", with a death-count possibly surpassing ALL Marvel heroes put together... being in-charge of a school... ugh. WORST. DECISION. EVER!!!

    Plus he killed his bisexual son, while imagining "if onlys" where Daken was straight. And then put the word "mongrel" on his tombstone... god, I hate Wolverine!!!
    My only issue is that the YA group are older than the JGHS kids, and so I'd only be able to see it as one of those awkward situations at a wedding where you as a 19 year old were forced to sit with your 14-15 year old cousins and second cousins for a day and an evening.
    Women are beautiful. But we're not here for your goddamn titillation.- junesdisco

  3. #1578
    Senior Member 1derer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    haha! And yeah... Wolverine, probably the most violent Marvel "hero", with a death-count possibly surpassing ALL Marvel heroes put together... being in-charge of a school... ugh. WORST. DECISION. EVER!!!
    I'm actually a Wolverine fan. His narrative arc at the school works great if you look at works where he's in the starring role. In works where he's a side-character, he's basically used to show an inappropriate "ends justify the means" aspect of his character. I can understand hating him because of what he is as a side-character, and that's canon so it would be legitimate hate... But its also narratively incompatible with his X-Force/WATXM/Solo portrayal. Given that he's only a 3D character in the latter portrayals, it's a more appropriate characterization to base him on compared to "Wolverine debates killing young Scott so Bendis can have lulz".

    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    Plus he killed his bisexual son, while imagining "if onlys" where Daken was straight. And then put the word "mongrel" on his tombstone... god, I hate Wolverine!!!
    The implications of what you're saying are wrong.
    1) He didn't kill his son because he was bisexual, he killed his song because Daken is a sociopathic mass-murderer who had just tried to off his entire team.
    2) Logan imagined him in a heterosexual relationship, not as "straight". Given Logan's constant failed search for a working relationship, some projection is pretty reasonable.
    3) Word of God from Daniel Way [who created the guy] says that Daken is not bisexual, but asexual, and uses sex as a tool for manipulation. Marjorie Liu has echoed this, saying that bisexuality is too simple a term for his approach to sex.
    4) If Daken chooses to chooses to go by the name "Mongrel" (for those who don't know, Daken—roughly—means "Mongrel" in Japanese), then it seems pretty appropriate to put that on his grave. Given that Logan placed a Torii right beside the gravestone (which marks the space as sacred ground) as well as a space for Buddhist votives, it was a pretty respectful burial.
    Primary pulls: X-Factor, Hawkeye, Young Avengers, Avengers Arena, X-Men: Legacy, Uncanny X-Force, FF, Archer and Armstrong

  4. #1579
    Curiosity Seaker Majin Gojira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_Alternate View Post
    My only issue is that the YA group are older than the JGHS kids, and so I'd only be able to see it as one of those awkward situations at a wedding where you as a 19 year old were forced to sit with your 14-15 year old cousins and second cousins for a day and an evening.
    Well, the new ones certainly are, but the more established one s(IE: the ones from the New X-Men run) can easily be aged up as well. Most were 16/17 back in 2002. They've gone through enough to justify them being older now. If the writer cares to.
    "Curse you, Occam's Razor! You have betrayed me!"

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  5. #1580
    Senior Member Whip Whirlwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_Alternate View Post
    My only issue is that the YA group are older than the JGHS kids, and so I'd only be able to see it as one of those awkward situations at a wedding where you as a 19 year old were forced to sit with your 14-15 year old cousins and second cousins for a day and an evening.
    This is how they should feel about the Idie, Sharktits, etc, but hopefully Anole,Rockslide, Surge, etc. weren't de aged just so they could stay in school longer.

  6. #1581
    Pure Hellcatnip Lady_Alternate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majin Gojira View Post
    Well, the new ones certainly are, but the more established one s(IE: the ones from the New X-Men run) can easily be aged up as well. Most were 16/17 back in 2002. They've gone through enough to justify them being older now. If the writer cares to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Whip Whirlwind View Post
    This is how they should feel about the Idie, Sharktits, etc, but hopefully Anole,Rockslide, Surge, etc. weren't de aged just so they could stay in school longer.
    Aaron has put most of them in short trousers and the mentality of early teens. Anole, apparently, will be the sole JGHS graduate in the next year.

    For some, the Marvel timeline moves on. For others, it never does. The only "constant" is that each character moves at a different rate.
    Women are beautiful. But we're not here for your goddamn titillation.- junesdisco

  7. #1582
    BUY LOKI: AGENT OF ASGARD Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PretenderNX01 View Post
    I agree with him. It's nice to have one, somewhat long standing, happy gay male couple in comics.
    Agreed. Their relationship has actually outlasted the courtship, marriage AND divorce of T'Challa/Storm. Wiccan and Hulkling are actually one of Marvel's most stable couples. If you could "the split" during Civil War between Sue Storm and Mr. Fantastic; they could be THE longest running relationship in Marvel currently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_Alternate View Post
    My only issue is that the YA group are older than the JGHS kids, and so I'd only be able to see it as one of those awkward situations at a wedding where you as a 19 year old were forced to sit with your 14-15 year old cousins and second cousins for a day and an evening.
    MAC ragging on someone underage would be even funnier!

    Quote Originally Posted by 1derer View Post
    I'm actually a Wolverine fan. His narrative arc at the school works great if you look at works where he's in the starring role. In works where he's a side-character, he's basically used to show an inappropriate "ends justify the means" aspect of his character. I can understand hating him because of what he is as a side-character, and that's canon so it would be legitimate hate... But its also narratively incompatible with his X-Force/WATXM/Solo portrayal. Given that he's only a 3D character in the latter portrayals, it's a more appropriate characterization to base him on compared to "Wolverine debates killing young Scott so Bendis can have lulz".
    Here in lies the problem. He can't be headmaster AND run a black ops hit-squad without being the biggest hypocrite around. Wolverine used to work so, SO well as a supporting character in a cast; who is mysterious and quite and the guy you go to for any "bad things". Now, with so many heroes killing, he is no longer special, so his death count has increased drastically. A once great character, sadly ruined by over-exposure and too much attention.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1derer View Post
    The implications of what you're saying are wrong.
    1) He didn't kill his son because he was bisexual, he killed his song because Daken is a sociopathic mass-murderer who had just tried to off his entire team.
    2) Logan imagined him in a heterosexual relationship, not as "straight". Given Logan's constant failed search for a working relationship, some projection is pretty reasonable.
    3) Word of God from Daniel Way [who created the guy] says that Daken is not bisexual, but asexual, and uses sex as a tool for manipulation. Marjorie Liu has echoed this, saying that bisexuality is too simple a term for his approach to sex.
    4) If Daken chooses to chooses to go by the name "Mongrel" (for those who don't know, Daken—roughly—means "Mongrel" in Japanese), then it seems pretty appropriate to put that on his grave. Given that Logan placed a Torii right beside the gravestone (which marks the space as sacred ground) as well as a space for Buddhist votives, it was a pretty respectful burial.
    I never said he killed his son because he was bisexual (which he is); I said he killed his bisexual son. There is a difference. He also drowned him in a puddle, then lectured Evan on "killing is not the answer." UGH! Love that series, HATED that ending. Remender really, REALLY missed the mark when it came to writing Daken.
    Last edited by Kieran_Frost; 01-07-2013 at 06:43 AM.

  8. #1583
    Senior Member Whip Whirlwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_Alternate View Post
    Aaron has put most of them in short trousers and the mentality of early teens. Anole, apparently, will be the sole JGHS graduate in the next year.

    For some, the Marvel timeline moves on. For others, it never does. The only "constant" is that each character moves at a different rate.
    Which is stupid, because nobody is doing anything with those characters. I'd rather them "graduate" into limbo then be stuck in school just so they can be wallpaper.

  9. #1584
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    It won't happen, but I would love for Mercury to get some facetime with the Young Avengers crew. Actually, I would just like to see Mercury do some stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    I never said he killed his son because he was bisexual (which he is); I said he killed his bisexual son. There is a difference.
    You make his sexuality relevant to the killing (which it isn't) when you observe it in that context. But again: He isn't bisexual. This has been stated clearly by his authors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    Here in lies the problem. He can't be headmaster AND run a black ops hit-squad without being the biggest hypocrite around.
    But there's nothing wrong with a character doing things that are in moral conflict with each other. Cyclops putting together a hit-squad was in line with his ends-justify-means approach, that doesn't make him a better character, just a more confident one. But really, resolving the conflict between his X-Force role and his headmaster role was a big part of the ending to UXF. I can understand not-liking it, but I thought it was great.

    The message to Evan was clearly a "killing only leads to more killing" sort of thing... There was inarguably no hypocrisy when Wolverine said that; it was clearly presented as a tragic event, and something that he was forced to do because of his own actions. The main problem with it was structural: in order for the ending to work Remender had to strip Daken of all his agency and effectively hand it to Wolverine + other people.
    Primary pulls: X-Factor, Hawkeye, Young Avengers, Avengers Arena, X-Men: Legacy, Uncanny X-Force, FF, Archer and Armstrong

  10. #1585
    Pure Hellcatnip Lady_Alternate's Avatar
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    This isn't a Wolverine thread, guys. PM or a UXF thread, please?


    Quote Originally Posted by Whip Whirlwind View Post
    Which is stupid, because nobody is doing anything with those characters. I'd rather them "graduate" into limbo then be stuck in school just so they can be wallpaper.
    In a school setting there's always a requirement for wallpaper, it would seem.

    The outcome is still the same, though; the YA and the JGHS are two very different worlds, with very different stories, and I think that's wonderful.
    Last edited by Lady_Alternate; 01-07-2013 at 07:51 AM.
    Women are beautiful. But we're not here for your goddamn titillation.- junesdisco

  11. #1586
    BUY LOKI: AGENT OF ASGARD Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Agreed, Lady_A.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1derer View Post
    It won't happen, but I would love for Mercury to get some facetime with the Young Avengers crew. Actually, I would just like to see Mercury do some stuff.
    Dust, Mercury or Transonic joining would thrill me to no end. The "synopsis" check-list say it's someone cool... so probably not Dust (though I think she's cool). Mercury is a Valley girl... the definition of COOL! And of the JGSHL students... Aaron doesn't seem that interesting in Mercury, so she is available. Has Gillen used her much, previously? (i.e. is there a connection)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_Alternate View Post
    In a school setting there's always a requirement for wallpaper, it would seem.
    I always, ALWAYS side with "wallpaper over limbo." Wallpaper is still remembered, and can still get time in the sun on occassions. Limbo... writers FORGET those in limbo very quickly.
    "I don't know how to please you Lord, but I think the fact I try to please you, pleases you."

  12. #1587
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    I always, ALWAYS side with "wallpaper over limbo." Wallpaper is still remembered, and can still get time in the sun on occassions. Limbo... writers FORGET those in limbo very quickly.
    Limbo is far preferable to wallpaper to me. At least limbo allows you to rationalize fantasies of how your favorite character would have come in and fixed everything, wallpaper provides empirical evidence that they just stood there and did nothing while all the bad stuff was happening.

  13. #1588
    BUY LOKI: AGENT OF ASGARD Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOff View Post
    Limbo is far preferable to wallpaper to me. At least limbo allows you to rationalize fantasies of how your favorite character would have come in and fixed everything, wallpaper provides empirical evidence that they just stood there and did nothing while all the bad stuff was happening.
    Sometimes they are "in action" wallpaper...
    "I don't know how to please you Lord, but I think the fact I try to please you, pleases you."

  14. #1589
    Pure Hellcatnip Lady_Alternate's Avatar
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    Well, there's no wallpaper in Gillen's Young Avengers. Everybody matters, everyone counts.

    Should make everyone happy.
    Women are beautiful. But we're not here for your goddamn titillation.- junesdisco

  15. #1590
    Veteran Member JaggedFel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    Agreed, Lady_A.


    Dust, Mercury or Transonic joining would thrill me to no end. The "synopsis" check-list say it's someone cool... so probably not Dust (though I think she's cool). Mercury is a Valley girl... the definition of COOL! And of the JGSHL students... Aaron doesn't seem that interesting in Mercury, so she is available. Has Gillen used her much, previously? (i.e. is there a connection)


    I always, ALWAYS side with "wallpaper over limbo." Wallpaper is still remembered, and can still get time in the sun on occassions. Limbo... writers FORGET those in limbo very quickly.
    No to the best of my knowledge he has never used Mercury at all. Besides definition is who Gillen thinks is cool.


    Sure as long as they dont remember to kill u.
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