Young Avengers Appreciation

[DebkoX]

She still lost her daughter. Don't you want to see the explosive outcome when she meets Scott Lang?

I'd guess they'd argue, cry and hug.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

I'd guess they'd argue, cry and hug.

Or does she kick him out, sue him, and other harsh things? This isn't just a dispute. This is her daughter, whom she abused to not be a hero, is now dead, and the man she tried to emulate is back to life. How is that not powerful material for a story?

[DebkoX]

Or does she kick him out, sue him, and other harsh things? This isn't just a dispute. This is her daughter, whom she abused to not be a hero, is now dead, and the man she tried to emulate is back to life. How is that not powerful material for a story?

I never saif it wasn't, I'm agreeing with you, it'd be very emotional.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

It's a superhero book, not a Danielle Steele novel. There are emotional chords and relationships...but I don't think they need to bog down the story.

There are enough interesting elements to Billy's story that this is kind of secondary, if not completely irellevant. Billy was created to be Wanda's son, not 'kid from the suburbs'.

He's 19 now, so presumably living independently of them at this point anyhow.

I forgot, superhero stories are all about wrecking the next most pointless villain.

Thing is, why are we burying these books into such a default template? Can't Superhero stories be some greater story about humanity instead of "Who beats who"?

This book is supposed to be about youth, so why ignore parents, who play a huge role in your adult life?

[Songbird/Diamondback]

I never saif it wasn't, I'm agreeing with you, it'd be very emotional.

But you assume it would just be a kiss and makeup. It should be something a lot more powerful than just that.

[DebkoX]

But you assume it would just be a kiss and makeup. It should be something a lot more powerful than just that.

I never said that, she'd hate him so much but the grief, well, they'd just hug and remember, full of grief, death can bring people together, not romantically but don't forget these two people concieved this child, there'd be a bond, I believe a death can bring together people in any way.

[Harbinger of Apocalypse]

The Cassie's mom thing is interesting since I have been reading Young Avengers recently. She is kind of unlikeable though to me but ultimately... she was kind of proven right. Her big fear for Cassie came true in that she would die in the whole superhero thing. Wonder if Cassie's mom might make a guest appearance in FF in order to badger Scott Lang....

[klinton]

I forgot, superhero stories are all about wrecking the next most pointless villain.

Thing is, why are we burying these books into such a default template? Can't Superhero stories be some greater story about humanity instead of "Who beats who"?

This book is supposed to be about youth, so why ignore parents, who play a huge role in your adult life?

They don't always. Many families get distant over the years.

I'm not advocating writing them out entirely or anything. I just don't see any need to address them at length. The odd visit or phone converstion is a sufficient nod to thier existence.

The real story here is his magical powers and the history there. Not the parental units. We need to move forward and build on that. What you're advocating is a minor tangent at best with no real payoff outside of cheesy after school special melodrama.

[DebkoX]

She will be back.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

I never said that, she'd hate him so much but the grief, well, they'd just hug and remember, full of grief, death can bring people together, not romantically but don't forget these two people concieved this child, there'd be a bond, I believe a death can bring together people in any way.

I don't think Cassie's mom will love Scott if she blames him for her daughters death.

The Cassie's mom thing is interesting since I have been reading Young Avengers recently. She is kind of unlikeable though to me but ultimately... she was kind of proven right. Her big fear for Cassie came true in that she would die in the whole superhero thing. Wonder if Cassie's mom might make a guest appearance in FF in order to badger Scott Lang....

That's the thing. Cassie's mom is now proven right. That should be a huge plot point.

I'm not advocating writing them out entirely or anything. I just don't see any need to address them at length. The odd visit or phone converstion is a sufficient nod to thier existence.

The real story here is his magical powers and the history there. Not the parental units. We need to move forward and build on that. What you're advocating is a minor tangent at best with no real payoff outside of cheesy after school special melodrama.

Not if it's done right. The whole theme of the Young Avengers has always been family, so why should Captain America have a bigger reaction than most of the parents do?

[DebkoX]

I don't think Cassie's mom will love Scott if she blames him for her daughters death.



That's the thing. Cassie's mom is now proven right. That should be a huge plot point.



Not if it's done right. The whole theme of the Young Avengers has always been family, so why should Captain America have a bigger reaction than most of the parents do?

Did you read it? I said 'not romantically' its just how things happen, like, lets say at the horrific sandy event (RIP) I guess some people were angry at first then, they just hugged, almost 'sharing' their pain and soothing each other.

[klinton]

I can see why you feel the way you do, SB/DB. You like the throw away characters and the sad and depressing elements. You pick the little dark corners and glom onto them as the 'real story'. I think you may be the only person on the planet that thinks Cassie's mom is 'interesting', and not the plot device that she was. Some 'characters' are not there to be fleshed out. They're there to drive a narrative, and then fade away.

I just don't see the writers sharing your unique reading of the Marvel Universe. The existence of things like Avengers Arena pretty much makes my point.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

I can see why you feel the way you do, SB/DB. You like the throw away characters and the sad and depressing elements. You pick the little dark corners and glom onto them as the 'real story'. I think you may be the only person on the planet that thinks Cassie's mom is 'interesting', and not the plot device that she was. Some 'characters' are not there to be fleshed out. They're there to drive a narrative, and then fade away.

I just don't see the writers sharing your unique reading of the Marvel Universe. The existence of things like Avengers Arena pretty much makes my point.

It's not that I find Cassie's mom interesting, it's just that Cassie's mom was a pretty big part of her life, and now she's dead. She was right about yelling at her daughter for becoming a hero and now she's dead. How is that not a good story?

What gets me so riled up is that we can have so many comics where Steve and Tony talk about being BFF's and other really pointless conversations, yet something that would be a very good and very deep emotional piece is completely ignored in favor of "Oh no! Another alien invasion is happening!" It's reaching a point where comics really should be focusing on something deeper and more personal instead of showing another charge of heroes against an army of something.

And if Arena can fully deliver with the epilogue and show everyone these deaths affect, I think it could be better. But I would hate, HATE if the kids get back, are sad for an issue and then go "Hey! Let's kill villains!". I hate, HATE how death is treated like a fleeting moment in comics. They linger, they're painful, and dammit, people need to realize how powerful someone dying is!

[klinton]

It's not that I find Cassie's mom interesting, it's just that Cassie's mom was a pretty big part of her life, and now she's dead. She was right about yelling at her daughter for becoming a hero and now she's dead. How is that not a good story?

What gets me so riled up is that we can have so many comics where Steve and Tony talk about being BFF's and other really pointless conversations, yet something that would be a very good and very deep emotional piece is completely ignored in favor of "Oh no! Another alien invasion is happening!" It's reaching a point where comics really should be focusing on something deeper and more personal instead of showing another charge of heroes against an army of something.

And if Arena can fully deliver with the epilogue and show everyone these deaths affect, I think it could be better. But I would hate, HATE if the kids get back, are sad for an issue and then go "Hey! Let's kill villains!". I hate, HATE how death is treated like a fleeting moment in comics. They linger, they're painful, and dammit, people need to realize how powerful someone dying is!

Cassie's gone. There is no more need for her mother in the books. She served only as a tool to drive Cassie's narrative. That use is now expended. Cassie herself is now merely a device to drive Scott's narrative.

If the character is important enough, they get proper due. Janet's death didn't go unmourned. Grief over Steve's death got a miniseries (that you would love, I think).

Care about the larger characters and you'll get all the satisfaction you're looking for. Dwell on characters that are wallflowers in life, and you'll get a proportionate coverage of their death. And this is as it should be, really.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

Cassie's gone. There is no more need for her mother in the books. She served only as a tool to drive Cassie's narrative. That use is now expended. Cassie herself is now merely a device to drive Scott's narrative.

If the character is important enough, they get proper due. Janet's death didn't go unmourned. Grief over Steve's death got a miniseries (that you would love, I think).

Care about the larger characters and you'll get all the satisfaction you're looking for. Dwell on characters that are wallflowers in life, and you'll get a proportionate coverage of their death. And this is as it should be, really.

Thing is, why should I care about the larger characters? Cause they always been there?

I'm glad Scott Lang is getting developments about Cassie in FF. That's one of the biggest reasons that's pulling me to that book. But I think that Cassie's mother is a very important factor that should be address.

Isn't it funny how Superhero comics are all about how life matters, yet they still put certain lives as mattering more than others?