Sunfire Appreciation

[Berserker]

I'm sure there are a variety of reasons for the cancellation of X-Men, but my point was it had nothing to do with the proposed addition of some diversity to the team, and Roy Thomas had the right idea.

Perhaps Sunfire and John Proudstar were intended from the beginning to leave, just like the O5, because there were too many characters to deal effectively with. But again, my point was a diverse cast including non-Americans, like what Roy Thomas wanted to do with Sunfire, worked.

And of course it would have been different if Sunfire remained. Not only in story content, but perhaps even the inclusion of Wolverine.

Considering the fact that Storm was the only non-Caucasian member left after Sunfire and Proudstar were gone, I think Marvel knew not to push its luck. An Asian and a Native American wouldn't have found much of an audience back then.

Also, Len Wein and Dave Cockrum openly admitted that Sunfire and Thunderbird I were to be "flunked" off the X-Men. None of the staff liked Sunfire so he was immediately ditched.

COCKRUM: "Kind of at the last minute. The way this all came about was that when we were first planning out that first issue, we decided what we were going to do was have it be an aptitude test or an entrance exam or something like that. They would be sent off to rescue the original X-Men, but the original X-Men would not actually be in any danger. We figured if it's an entrance exam, theoretically, there are people who are going to flunk as well as people who pass, and so we had Banshee and Sunfire, and we were going to flunk 'em. Then we thought, well, that doesn't seem fair, we ought to have a new guy to flunk too, a new guy who's unsuitable. So that was what Thunderbird was for, to be a flunker. He was unsuitable because he was anti-social. Hah! As if Wolverine's not anti-social. But at the last minute- well, I liked Banshee and we all liked Thunderbird, so we figured to hell with it. It turned out not to be a test anyway. So we had Sunfire, who nobody much liked, go off in a huff, and we kept Banshee and we kept Thunderbird. But then we didn't know what to do with Thunderbird because we never thought him out. It was easier to kill him off than to think him out."

The only divergence that Sunfire would have caused had he remained as an X-Man would have been during the Phoenix Saga. Instead of Jean, Shiro would operate the shuttle since his powers would protect him from the radiation in the reentry while Jean could psychically implant Doctor Corbeau's piloting skills into Sunfire. So Jean may not have become the Phoenix which would lead to serious repercussions in the upcoming conflict with D'Ken.

[Rheged]

Considering the fact that Storm was the only non-Caucasian member left after Sunfire and Proudstar were gone, I think Marvel knew not to push its luck. An Asian and a Native American wouldn't have found much of an audience back then.

I also said non-American, and you're forgetting Nightcrawler. I really don't believe you can speak for Marvel, much less for Marvel editors from Bronze Age. Marvel published many books with non-white characters back then, and even gave them their own books. Here's Marvel pushing it's luck AND finding an audience for an Asian around the same time as ANXM.



Or how about this one featuring a Native American:

Also, Len Wein and Dave Cockrum openly admitted that Sunfire and Thunderbird I were to be "flunked" off the X-Men. None of the staff liked Sunfire so he was immediately ditched.

COCKRUM: "Kind of at the last minute. The way this all came about was that when we were first planning out that first issue, we decided what we were going to do was have it be an aptitude test or an entrance exam or something like that. They would be sent off to rescue the original X-Men, but the original X-Men would not actually be in any danger. We figured if it's an entrance exam, theoretically, there are people who are going to flunk as well as people who pass, and so we had Banshee and Sunfire, and we were going to flunk 'em. Then we thought, well, that doesn't seem fair, we ought to have a new guy to flunk too, a new guy who's unsuitable. So that was what Thunderbird was for, to be a flunker. He was unsuitable because he was anti-social. Hah! As if Wolverine's not anti-social. But at the last minute- well, I liked Banshee and we all liked Thunderbird, so we figured to hell with it. It turned out not to be a test anyway. So we had Sunfire, who nobody much liked, go off in a huff, and we kept Banshee and we kept Thunderbird. But then we didn't know what to do with Thunderbird because we never thought him out. It was easier to kill him off than to think him out."

Nowhere in this paragraph does it say they 'flunked' Sunfire and Thunderbird because they were Asian and Native American. In fact, it pretty much points out that Sunfire and Thunderbird started out in the same place as Wolverine, but weren't given time to develop. Claremont didn't like Wolvie either, and he would have been killed also, if it hadn't been for Byrne.

[Rheged]

I agree with you actually. It's tough to sell him as a team hero because he tends to be a loner or at least tends to want to just protect Japan. But I think part of that is because he hasn't been written on a regular basis since his first appearance. He was a part of X-Corporation before M Day so there is a possibility that his priorities were shifting to wanting to help on a global level.

One of the positives about M Day was that it brought mutants who would normally have stayed away from the X-Men into the X fold. I would have loved to have seen Shiro freed from Apocalypses' control guest starring in Uncanny or something to work with the X-Men in trying to help depowered mutants in Japan. He could overtime then become part of the team.

Since I doubt we'll ever get an X-Men International book, I think writers will have to find a way to work Sunfire onto the X-team, to develop the character more fully. Perhaps his world view is expanding a bit, as you say, because of M-Day. Or perhaps he's trying to get right with himself first. But the more I think about it, the more I think there are options to bring him on the team. Or at least do an arc.

Of course, the sticking point is finding a writer who wants to spend the effort.

[Rheged]

Looking on another site, I found these pictures of Sunfire. When did he wear this costume? Do you like it?

[Chase_Stein]

Looking on another site, I found these pictures of Sunfire. When did he wear this costume? Do you like it?

I like the look except for the cyberkinetic armor. It doesn't seem very iconic though. It looks like a generic 90's look.

[AcesX1X]

very generic outfit, but i think the solar panels on his body are funny. no, sunfire needs his fish-mask always. it is his trademark. the aoa look is a nice update on.

[Chase_Stein]

very generic outfit, but i think the solar panels on his body are funny. no, sunfire needs his fish-mask always. it is his trademark. the aoa look is a nice update on.

I hate it. He looks like a carp.

[Tekkaman Blade]

I have always been a huge fan of Sunfire and for quite some time have wanted him to rejoin the X-Men. Glad to see he has an appreciation thread here.

Looking on another site, I found these pictures of Sunfire. When did he wear this costume? Do you like it?

Sunfire started wearing this armor in Uncanny X-Men #283 and it was designed by Whilce Portacio. The solar panels allowed him to absorb solar energy at an increased rate and the wrist gauntlets let him fire his beams with finer precision than before.

It was definitely a striking costume change at the time since I was always fond of his original outfit but as a kid reading at the time of it's debut I kind of liked it (I had really dug what Portacio had just done previously on X-Factor before taking over the art on Uncanny). The super long three feet of hair suddenly being there was the most jarring addition.

[Rheged]

I hate it. He looks like a carp.

Hmmmm. I didn't see that before, but yes, that's probably the intention, as that makes perfect sense, considering how the Japanese view the carp.

So, yes, Aces, I agree, Sunfire should keep the carp mask.

[Rheged]

I like the look except for the cyberkinetic armor. It doesn't seem very iconic though. It looks like a generic 90's look.

Yes, upon reflection, I have to agree, it's got a strong '90s thing going. At least his pony tail is respectable.

very generic outfit, but i think the solar panels on his body are funny. no, sunfire needs his fish-mask always. it is his trademark. the aoa look is a nice update on.

I think that's what first caught my eye, the armor looking solar panels. But the giant shoulder pauldrons ... I know they are supposed to harken back to samurai armor, but this makes me think Shiro is raiding Silver Samurai's closet. O_o

Sunfire started wearing this armor in Uncanny X-Men #283 and it was designed by Whilce Portacio. The solar panels allowed him to absorb solar energy at an increased rate and the wrist gauntlets let him fire his beams with finer precision than before.

It was definitely a striking costume change at the time since I was always fond of his original outfit but as a kid reading at the time of it's debut I kind of liked it (I had really dug what Portacio had just done previously on X-Factor before taking over the art on Uncanny). The super long three feet of hair suddenly being there was the most jarring addition.

I think that's what caught my attention in part. It is SO different, and striking. Nice to know it actually had a purpose, and wasn't just a costume change. Thanks for the info!

LOL! I didn't think of that. Did he have short hair before he put on the suit?

[Tekkaman Blade]

I think that's what caught my attention in part. It is SO different, and striking. Nice to know it actually had a purpose, and wasn't just a costume change. Thanks for the info!

LOL! I didn't think of that. Did he have short hair before he put on the suit?

Yep, his hair had been far shorter before this change. He had sported the bowl cut style haircut for quite some time. Here's an image of him out of costume in a business suit talking with Mariko (Uncanny X-Men #181).

[Rheged]

Yep, his hair had been far shorter before this change. He had sported the bowl cut style haircut for quite some time. Here's an image of him out of costume in a business suit talking with Mariko (Uncanny X-Men #181).

Yeah, I thought he kept it short most the time. He looks like a salaryman there. LOL!

[Electric Version]

Ugh, I HATED that Portacio design. He has one of the coolest masks in comics history, why would you want to get rid of it?



Notice he's running off with Northstar instead of Mystique....

[Electric Version]

Damn. Shiro got back.

[Rheged]

Notice he's running off with Northstar instead of Mystique....

We don't get to see much of Shiro's ... relationships, do we? Well, other than Firestar.

Damn. Shiro got back.

Yes. Yes he does.